Why did you buy Surfcam?

[Machining]

Why did you buy Surfcam and does it work as you thought it would, or should?
What does it do well and what could it do better?

[Chrliev]

Turn the clock way back to 1990, when 3D CNC machining was not all that common, PCs were barely able to crunch the numbers, parametric surfaces were a brand new innovation, all the rage and everyone claimed or wanted to claim that they could do 3D, multi-axis part machining. Impostors were everywhere... and BS was just running rampant

At that time, I was programming complex AeroSpace parts using NCL from NCCS for 3, 4 and 5 axis work it is (or was) an extremely powerful system for 3, 4 and 5 axis machining but because it was language driven it was practically useless for 2 and 21/2 axis machining, it didn't even have a pocketing or continuous countouring routinej, everything was LOONGHAND.

The idea was to get something to run alongside NCL for doing the simpler programs, like 2 1/2 and even some 3 axis parts.

I looked at all of the programming systems and software on the market. Most were immediatley dismissed outright with a smile and a wink because of limited fucntionality. My quest left only 3 contenders, CAMAX (gone now), MasterCam and SurfCam.

The best software at that time IMO was CAMAX but at $30K+ it was expensive. MasterCam and SurfCam Tech people both claimed to have the ability to machine parametric surfaces with limited 4 and 5 axis capability.

Surfcam was actually able to demonstrate this to me. MasterCam said that they could do it but they just couldn't show it to me. What they did show me was a CNC file with moves 1mm long no matter how flat or complex the shape of the surface. "We've got this stuff called "C Hooks" and its awesome"... The 4 axis programming was just more smoke and mirrors. "Hey we just delete the 5th axis moves, and there you go a 4 axis CNC file" see it...
"Trust me buddy MasterCam can do it, I just can't show it to you on the computer's monitor", but it definitely can do it.

That's why I got SurfCam, it was the only affordable software that could do what I needed, and I am using right now, I have never regretted my decision and I can't tell you how many UG and MCrap programmers that I have put out of work...

On the Wish List..., Right now I seriously need a 64bit application that is a lot more stable than V5.2, TurMill is awesome but it still does way too much aircutting with lots of useless moves and questionable rapid drops. Working with extremely large databases I probably get 10 crashes in an average day.

[Excelmachine]

We only do prototyping, usually drawings come in the morning, finished part goes to our engineers later that afternoon. Mostly 2d stuff, but at times, some of it requires extensive 3d surfacing. It's worked really well for us for those types of jobs.
On the other hand, we also have a cnc lathe and Surfcam's lathe package is really hurting in my opinion. I used to use Gibbs about 5 years ago to use for programming a lathe and that version of Gibbs at that time was 5 years old and that old version is light years ahead of Surfcam's current lathe package.
It would be really nice to have 64 bit verification as many times it takes some time to crunch the 3d surfacing tool paths. It also would be nice if Surfcam had a user forum for help with questions. More educational options would be nice for Surfcam too, although the new video tutorials are a step in the right direction. We also never really hear about anything that they might be working on for future versions. It's like we just are expected to sit and wait until they determine we need updates.

[moldcore]

Purchased Surfcam when I started my shop 15 years ago. Used Mastercam prior at another shop. I didn’t like the dealer for Mastercam at the time and I knew the Surfcam dealer so I said why not, besides both programs were very similar at that time. I see you also posted this question in the FeatureCam forum and I have demoed FeatureCam a few times over the years. I think it comes down to the dealer you have to work with because both programs have about the same capabilities. They just do it differently. FC interface is more modern while SC is outdated and clunky. We use Surfcam for 2D and 3D and it makes good code. I rarely do any verification because we trust what it puts out. I agree with Excelmachine about not having a user forum. I guess they think it’s OK to air their dirty laundry out in public forums like this one. As for new features in future versions, I’m so tired of hearing “it will be in the next version” and it never is.

[dynacam]

It was interesting reading the posts below. I am the SURFCAM dealer in Australia and I understand everything that's been said.

@Chrliev, I may be able to solve the stability issue if you use 2 Axis Drilling. V6 will have 64 bit processing. Due 1st qtr 2012 which probably means April.

@Excelmachine, I believe Surfware have employed a developer purely to work on Lathe so we should see some improvements in V6. SURFCAM V5.2 does have 64bit Verify and I'm a little surprised you didn't know about it. The Forum issue has been raised at many Dealer meetings and I guess it would be nice to have one. However, most of the dealers have been with SURFCAM for many years and we generally know the product very well. Any questions you may have for a forum should probably be directed to them.

@moldcore, all software products make toolpaths to run CNC machines and they all have features the others don't. I agree that the dealer plays a big part. If you are goingt spend upwards of $10k on a software package, you want to be sure the support is first class.

[moldcore]

I like the idea of the company forum because you know with some degree of confidence that you’re getting through to the source of the problem. Not some second party that may, when it’s convenient for them to relay the suggestion or concern. I believe Surfcams lack of progress over the years can partly be attributed to poor communication between the users and the developers. Dealers like yourself should spend your time selling, promoting and training the product not chasing down bugs. When I come across a problem I would like to be able to do a search of a forum to see if a solution has been found already. I don’t want to wait for a dealer to return my call, I may need a solution right now.

As for crashing, I’m tired of it too. It’s an almost daily occurrence here. Only it doesn’t crash but locks up. Having to wait for version 6 is an insult. If they know about it and have a fix it should be fixed right now with a patch.

[Excelmachine]

To Dynacam:
Thanks for posting some feed back from a reseller's point of view. When we originally bought our seat of Surfcam, we had a local dealer. He knew the product inside and out, was very well versed in the functionality of the software and knew all kinds of methods to get things done. He was a large part of why we bought Surfcam, because of the local support and his knowledge of using the program. He had a class room where we had a few lessons also, that helped a lot. What was fantastic for us with him is that if we had a really weird tough part to make, we could drive over there in 10 min and he could show us how to do it. But unfortunately for whatever reason, Surfcam changed their distribution methods in Southern California and now we do not have any local dealers. We can only deal with the main office. While they aren't too bad in getting back to us if we have a question, it sure isn't the same as having a local dealer.
Another big reason for my disappointment with Surfcam now is the lack of training materials. We are contemplating buying another CAM system and one of the big issues with that will be the availability of training materials. Like what Mastercam and SolidCam has.

[dynacam]

Gentlemen, my email address is david@pacificcadcam.com if you'd like to talk over email. There is a patch available for the crashing issue.

[Chrliev]

Judging by Surfware's history, if V6 is released in the 1st Quarter of 2012, it means that all the bugs should be worked out of it by 2nd Quarter of 2012.

As to Surfware's distribution methods, a little speculation...

In its very early years anyone (like me) interested in buying Surfcam was offered to become a local dealer. I'm not sure why the dealer network was eliminated in Southern California, but a good guess (I have no facts to support it) might be that being in Surfware's backyard and by handling local sales in-house, commisions would be eliminated. Also unique to CAD/CAM systems is the fact that maintenance, paid yearly is collected long after the sale is completed.

The dealer who did the work cultivating a group of users is now permanently cut off with no recourse and Surfware gets to collect very nicely on the ex-dealers work without hardly lifting a finger.

I'm seriously looking into a new system probably Cimatron or HyperMil...

[Camfather]

I used to work for the So Cal Surfcam Dealer from 1996 til 2001. Wow looks likes things haven't changed much.