Newbie- Gecko vs Keling vs Xylotex driver

[pinjas]

Hello,

I am comparing gecko and keling drivers. A lot of people have great things to say about gecko drivers, but I've heard similar talk of xylotex and keling as well. I have no idea if it -really- matters which drivers you go with. I understand that a gecko 203v has a lot of safeguards in place for foolish newbies like myself, but those safeguards come at a hefty price.
Assuming that I don't end up destroying the drives in the wiring process, what driver would be ideal?

I am sure the application has a role in deciding which is ideal, maybe I am wrong. I am planning on making a belt driven, 4 axis (x x y z) 4x8 (maybe a bit smaller) steel plasma cnc table, eventually I intend to add things to the thc, like a router for example. It definitely looks like kits are the way to go as they include plenty of extras and come at a lower price, price is very important here. I am trying to keep things under 500-600 including steppers. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[cyclestart]

Originally Posted by pinjas I understand that a gecko 203v has a lot of safeguards in place for foolish newbies like myself, but those safeguards come at a hefty price.

Apples and oranges if comparing Gecko to Xylotex. . The closest Xylotex equivalent would be the Gecko G251 but even there the Gecko is more drive.

Assuming that I don't end up destroying the drives in the wiring process, what driver would be ideal?

If a Xylotex is not properly connected to the motors, OR a motor is disconnected while powered up, the drive for that axis is destroyed. My 3 axis board is now a 2 axis board.

I am sure the application has a role in deciding which is ideal, maybe I am wrong.

You're right.
For a small (relatively speaking) router or mill the Gecko G540 is hard to beat. I don't know much about plasma(s).

Compared to the Xylotex any recent Gecko is smoother, more silent, more durable, and is capable of handling more power. The Xylotex is slightly cheaper and is available as a plug-n-play package. I love my G540.

I have no experience with the Keling drive and therefore didn't vote. However I have dealt with John and give him a thumbs up as a dealer.

[Pplug]

I have a xylotex drive in my small router, I'm replacing it with a gecko 540 kit as I type this. When I made my router, three or 4 years ago, the 540 was nonexistent. Xylotex is underpowered and the rest of the wiring can be a pain. Spend the extra $, you will not be sorry.

[Torchhead]

The G540 has:
1. Integrated BoB with signals for inputs and outputs that are isolated (important)
2. Twice the speed (RPM) capability with a 48VDC power rating VS a 24VDC for the Xylotex
3. Is plug compatible with our Low cost THC (LCTHC) using our G540 Interface Card option.
4. Usable with higher torque steppers (up to 3.5A rated) that are going to be important to you if you want the speed for plasma AND the torque/resolution for Router operation.
5. G540 has anti-resonance, high speed opto isolated inputs (VERY important for plasma). and integrated Charge Pump (CP) from MACH.

Sometimes buying cheap is more costly in the long run. Get the best value for your design.

The xylotex technology is pretty long-in-the-tooth. It's a 3 or 4 year old design that has been eclipsed by more modern engineering.

Over the years we have sold both types of drivers. There is a distinct reason we standardized on Gecko drives.

Not having ever used the Keling drives all I can address is they are Chinese imports. Usually the biggest downside to that is support and documentation.

If you intent is to go with larger motors (34 frame up to 1000+ oz-in) you need to consider the G201X drives. They are not as bullet proof as the 203V's but coupled with the right driver interface electronics can be an extremely effective solution to drive bigger motors at even higher RPM.

Tom caudle
www.CandCNC.com/LCTHC.html

[Broken Balsa]

On my new build I used a 540. It performs flawlessly and gives me very good service. I can say it was simple to install, simple to hook up and have no bads to report. I am running it at 48 volts. I used xylotex on my last build and have to say it has given good service with no problems. I would however have to give it to gecko for its flexibility and power. BB

[diyengineer]

Upgrade to DC servos and use Vipers.

[pinjas]

Originally Posted by diyengineer Upgrade to DC servos and use Vipers.

I guess that everything I've read suggests that servos wouldn't be a good option. They seem to cost a great deal more and they are far more complicated. Maybe, I have no idea what I am talking about, but I guess I don't really want to spend the extra cash on something that might not accomplish anything greater than what a cheaper version may.
So far, it looks like the voted results suggest (and what others say) that gecko is the way to go. I've been considering the G540 or some other gecko setup for some time. The idea that those keling drivers are just re-branded Chinese drivers seems like a pretty big idea to me.

Thanks for the responses.

[ger21]

The idea that those keling drivers are just re-branded Chinese drivers seems like a pretty big idea to me.

They are Chinese drivers. The steppers they sell are chinese too. But everyone uses them and they work fine.

If you don't want Chinese, you can always pay 2-3 times more. You get what you pay for.

[diyengineer]

Originally Posted by pinjas I guess that everything I've read suggests that servos wouldn't be a good option. They seem to cost a great deal more and they are far more complicated. Maybe, I have no idea what I am talking about, but I guess I don't really want to spend the extra cash on something that might not accomplish anything greater than what a cheaper version may. So far, it looks like the voted results suggest (and what others say) that gecko is the way to go. I've been considering the G540 or some other gecko setup for some time. The idea that those keling drivers are just re-branded Chinese drivers seems like a pretty big idea to me. Thanks for the responses.

I was just egging you on

Before i went to servos (i was contemplating using steppers) i found that Gecko had the most reasonable prices, great quality, and good customer support. I did a lot of looking into the G540 and found if used correctly and within its means it was a great all in one unit. I needed more power and was unable to use such a device, but it would have been awesome to plug and play.

Depending on size of your steppers (and if you needed more power) you could also run individual drivers like there new G203V Vampire. ($139 each)

Located here:
G203V Vampire

Keling sells Geckos here:
Page Title

The best advice though is to really look at all the specs and make sure its all going to work and do what you want. Also asking the community like your doing will net you all kinds of great information!! I would spend the money on Geckos or other notable drivers that have detailed information, support, and parts!
Good luck with your build!!

[James Newton]

Looking at the price of the G540 (which is an excellent product), and then at the cost of matching /parallel/ bipolar stepper motors (8 wire or /parallel/ 4 wire), not to mention the rest of the mechanics for the table... I don't see how you are going to keep under $600.

If you rummage local junk shops, computer and office machine repair places, and freecycle, you might be able to scrounge motors for nothing. Of course, you have to take want you find, and they may not be 4 or 8 wire... watch out for /series/ bipolar as the torque will drop rapidly as you speed up.

If you find some 5, 6 or 8 wire motors and can live with 1 to 2 amps per phase drive at 24 or so volts, the Linistepper kits are a viable alternative at far less cost.

[pinjas]

Originally Posted by James Newton Looking at the price of the G540 (which is an excellent product), and then at the cost of matching /parallel/ bipolar stepper motors (8 wire or /parallel/ 4 wire), not to mention the rest of the mechanics for the table... I don't see how you are going to keep under $600. If you rummage local junk shops, computer and office machine repair places, and freecycle, you might be able to scrounge motors for nothing. Of course, you have to take want you find, and they may not be 4 or 8 wire... watch out for /series/ bipolar as the torque will drop rapidly as you speed up. If you find some 5, 6 or 8 wire motors and can live with 1 to 2 amps per phase drive at 24 or so volts, the Linistepper kits are a viable alternative at far less cost.

Could you be more specific when you mention the mechanics?

When I mention 600, I am referring to the driver, the steppers and the power supply.

If you mean things like the belts, rails, bearings and the metal required to fabricate the table, I have more to spend for that. I am trying to keep the cost of the table (Not including the plasma cutter) at or under 1500.

I did look into linistepper, you seem to -really- recommend them. I must confess that I am guilty of a minor crime against linistepper, I assumed that due to it's lower cost, the product must have some inferiority compared to the G540 (for example), and that I should just keep my eye on that driver for simplicity.
Hah, this is funny. I think I understand why you are so adamant about linistepper, you seem to have some commercial affiliation with linistepper, I was just scrolling on some page and saw 'james newton' answering a list of questions for individuals on Linear Stepper Motor Controller this page.
Perhaps than you can save me some time and show your product knowledge, what are the differences between linistepper and a G540? It looks like they are pretty similar. I saw linistepper being called 'stepless', I see linear stepper, is this really applicable to real world performance?

[James Newton]

LOL... I guess I should have made that more clear. Yes, I sell the Linistepper kits, so I am a bit biased. But I hope to prove that I'm also honest about what the advantages and disadvantages...

The Linistepper is not as capable as a gecko drive, but it has a few points to it's credit: It is much less expensive (about half) and it is fully open source. All the source code, schematics, etc... are freely available. So although it's a commercial product, it is also an open source project.

The Linistepper will drive about 1 or 2 amps per phase in microstepping modes and it is unipolar not bipolar. It is a kit, so you have to put it together by soldering on all the parts. The PIC microcontroller comes programmed so you don't have to mess with that.

It is not a traditional linear only drive; it activly regulates the current flow so it does not require a high voltage supply the way old style linear drivers do. But it does use linear modes in the drive transistors so they get hotter and you need a good heatsink or CPU fan to keep them from burning up.

Mariss Freimanis of geckdrive.com says: "A switching type drive makes sense when the power levels are large. The inefficiency of a linear drive becomes prohibitive at such levels. At 7A and 80V, a classic linear drive dissipates an unacceptable 560 Watts of heat in the power transistors.

At the other extreme, say 1A and 24V, the complexity of a switching type drive makes less sense. Heat dissipation then is a manageable 24 Watts and the simplicity and other advantages of a linear amplifier becomes appealing." ^
CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net! - View Single Post - Build Thread Couple of Questions

It's really easy to repair (less than $2 to replace all the drive transistors) and to build.

So, long story short. If you can deal with lower drive, and unipolar motors (which aren't as bad as everyone thinks) the Linistepper can save you some money.