eBay TB6560 Stepper Motor Driver Boards


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Thread: eBay TB6560 Stepper Motor Driver Boards

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    Question eBay TB6560 Stepper Motor Driver Boards

    Good Day All.

    eBay now have the TB6560 Stepper Motor Driver Boards, in 3,4, and 5 axis.

    I have ordered my self ones of the 4 axis versions.

    I see that there is a topic about the eBay TA8435H Stepper Motor Driver Boards here but I wanted to start a new topic to stop cross posting or going off topic.

    I have gone for the TB6560 over the TA8435 due to the fact that the TB6560 is ment to be able to run voltages of upto 34volts.

    I am going to be running Astrosyn MY103H702 stepper motors in Bipolar Parallel, 1.4amp per phase.

    Reading the datasheet for the TB6560 chip I can see that the current is set by current sensing resistors.

    As I have not yet got my board I can only go by looking at the pictures, and if I am right the current sence resistors are, Brown, Brown, Silver, Gold, 0.11ohm 5%, If that is right we are looking at 4.5A, but the TB6560 chip is only rated to 3.5 amps peak.

    Then you have the 6 dip switches, switches 1-2 are once again for current limit, 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%.

    Are we looking at a current % of 3.0amps, 3.5amps or 4.5amps?

    So how do I set up the board for use with my stepper motors.

    Does anyone have one of thease board, or can anyone clear a few things up for me.

    Thanks for your time.

    Best Regards.

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    Good idea to collect the data of the new board.
    I've also considered swapping the board as my mill could do with a little more current.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Professor View Post
    As I have not yet got my board I can only go by looking at the pictures, and if I am right the current sence resistors are, Brown, Brown, Silver, Gold, 0.11ohm 5%, If that is right we are looking at 4.5A, but the TB6560 chip is only rated to 3.5 amps peak.
    I would assume that's to much.
    What if its red, red silver, gold ?
    0.22Ohm would set ~2.5A which seems more sensible.

    What's also giving me the creaps is that the diodes on the output terminals of the TA8435 boards are the real limit.
    They get already very hot with TA8435 at ~1.6A.
    Hope they found soe better components or you will see them desoldering by itself ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Professor View Post
    Then you have the 6 dip switches, switches 1-2 are once again for current limit, 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%.

    Are we looking at a current % of 3.0amps, 3.5amps or 4.5amps?
    It seems to be the % of the set base current.
    So based on the 0.22Ohm assumption it's based on 2.5A.


    P.S. did the board finally arrive ?



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    TB6560 boards are in www.cncgeeker.com too.

    Looks better than before (TA8435).



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    Default Duaneglee

    Aloha, I'm new to this, this is my first post ever. I love to tinker and I have been reasearching cnc for a couple of months now. I'm wathing the 6560 boards on e-bay and looking forward to any posts on this board. I've been starting to build a pair of xy sleds and decided on motors, now I'm trying to design from the motors to the computer and software. I like the price of the Jeticut software but is anyone using it, and will it work with this e-bay board? Still learning, Aloha, Duane



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    Sorry for the delay, I have been unwell for the last week.

    Yes I now have got the board, it took two weeks to get to the UK.

    The current sence resistors are, Orange, Orange, Silver, Gold, 0.33ohm 5%.

    The board is ment to be able to run upto 36vdc, but after reading the data sheets 36vdc is pushing it.

    L7812CV - 35 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.
    L7805CV - 35 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.
    TB6560AHQ - 40 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.

    I had tried tested this board with my 36vdc power supply, but I smoked one of the TB6560AHQ chips, I put this down to running near the voltage limit, and possible voltage spike.

    I am now looking at ways to protect the board from overvoltage and voltage spikes, before I do any more testing.



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    Default TB6560 manual

    I bought one of these and was getting pretty anxious as I could not find any info on the pinout of the board itself (board hasn't arrived yet). After trawling the net I found a manual in reasonable English that can be found at the ebay seller listing these boards called "prettyworthshop" half way down the listing page of this board you will find a link to the manual which is called TB3M.pdf

    I hope this is the same board as the "savebase" board that I bought, pictures look the same and title is spelt incorrectly the same "borad". Just thought I would post as manual may be of help to others.

    Lachlan



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    As far as I can tell, they're all manufactured by Hyu68. It's hard for me to
    tell, since I can't read Chinese and the link to English pages is broken.
    They also sell some manual controls on the site.

    http://hyu68.com/cp8.htm



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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Professor View Post
    The current sence resistors are, Orange, Orange, Silver, Gold, 0.33ohm 5%.
    Those chinese guys are funny:rainfro:
    Setting a current limit of 1.6A but offering the board as 3,5A board.

    But be carefull with modifying the resistors.
    The board seems to contain the same crappy protection diodes that are almost frying themselfes on the TA8435 boards.
    Before modifying the board for more current we may have to switch the diodes for some better types.

    Better use this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Axis-CNC-Route...item1c0db736a9
    Their data seems rather true and the shop has well documented it's stuff.
    Seems a lot more relyable than the other vendors.



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    Ok so first off I am a total newbie to CNC! The board arrived yesterday and I hooked it up to my home made cnc machine, plugged it in to the computer set for 1/8 resolution set up mach 3 as per the manual and after some motor tuning all 3 axes are running really well, Silky smooth with very little heat coming from the controller or the motors which is most encouraging. A word of warning though my motors are 3A 249 oz bipolar steppers and I don't think the driver could handle much more than these.

    A problem I see with the TB6560M design are the 5v and 12v regulators are linear so if you are putting 30v through the board they get extremely HOT! In fact so hot especially the 12 reg that I used a 15v power supply instead as my setup is pretty small it still runs well and the regs stay only warm.



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    Default Caution about parasitic protection diode change

    Hi Folks

    Caution about those parasitic protection diodes.

    Those diodes are getting hot due to catching the energy from the coils of the motors when the drive switches off the current to the coil. The magnetic energy induces a voltage in coil in the reverse direction to the voltage impressing the current at switch off. The reverse voltage increases until it is caught by these diodes. Take the diodes off and a very high voltage spike appears accross the output of the chip in the reverse direction to the normal supply destroying the output semiconductors. The parasitic protection diodes are high speed switching diodes and the speed of switching high currents is the important selection figure alomg with the thermal disipation for short pulses not the rms current rating.

    I am correcting this as I got it wrong this morning. Using parallel connection gives less inductance and hence less kick back when the drivers are disconnected. The unfortunate bit I was thinking about was my own case where I need maximum powere at low revs where serial connection is best for my needs. That said if the motors are reving at speed then the diodes have to disipate the power generated in brining the shaft to rest.

    Changing the type of diode for another with equal or better turn on speed will not have much effect on the heat in the diode. If the diodes are getting very hot then the back swing voltage from the coils contains a lot of power hence the heat. Increasing the diode forward current rating will not help as this is a diode package heat dissipation problem. Changing to diodes that have provision for an external heat sink is necessary to get rid of the heat from the diode in the middle of the plastic case.

    If you change the mounting of the parasitic protection diodes you must pay particular attention to keeping the leads very short so that the lead inductance between the positive and negative ends of the individual diodes is short and the wire thick.

    Sorry for the gloomy post. Good luck as the TBA6560 chip used with in its ratings is a low cost solution. If anyone can read the diode type number it would interesting as the diodes may be zener diodes with a rating of 40 volts or more used to clamp any positive coil swings induced by rapid conduction of the magnetic energy in the other coils.

    Regards

    Pat

    Last edited by wildwestpat; 11-27-2009 at 05:10 PM. Reason: Correction parallel gives less diode power and is best


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    Quote Originally Posted by wildwestpat View Post
    Changing the type of diode for another with equal or better turn on speed will not have much effect on the heat in the diode. If the diodes are getting very hot then the back swing voltage from the coils contains a lot of power hence the heat. Increasing the diode forward current rating will not help as this is a diode package heat dissipation problem.
    The warning may be true but I still belive it's only half the facts.

    For one, the diodes simply are there to continue the current flow in the coils when the output stage switches off.
    The current regulation use a PWM chopper circuit like a switching power regulator. So coil and diode are part of the current regulator. The diode will take over the current during off time of the output stage.

    Usually these free-weeling diodes are part of the driver. But mostly these integrated diodes have poor rating, hence the external diodes to reduce the dissipation in the driver.
    The best drivers use synchrounous rectification. Here one of the output transistors will serve as "diode" by switching it on at the right time during off period.

    I checked my TA8435 board and they use FR307 diodes to ground. The power dissipation on these diodes are based on four facts:
    1) coil current (direct linear dependency)
    2) diode forward voltage (direct linear dependency)
    3) diode recovery speed (somewhat nonlinear, but faster is generally better, depends also on 4) )
    4) chopper frequency ( see 3) but we have mostly no means to change this)

    The FR307 diodes have not the absolute best rating.
    E.g. they have ~1.3V forward voltage at 3A and 500ns recovery time. They have 1000V reverse voltage, which is not needed. Actually a FR304 has only 400V reverse but only 150ns recovery time. So it would have been a better choise.

    Of cause there are diodes with lower forward voltage.
    Just googling I found a EGP30A-30D with 0,95V at 3A and 50ns recovery. This may stay cooler.
    So the key is NOT the current. It's the forward voltage at the your selected coil current.
    Of cause the diode current rating must allow for the coil current. Using a 1A diode for 2A coil current is of couse a no-go.

    For drivers with synchronous rectification the key is those diode-turned output transistors (MOSFET !) generate ultra low forward voltages. This can be as low as just a few dozzen of millivolt. Silicon diodes have usually > 0,7V, Shottky versions could be down to 0,3V. That's a technology limit that commercial diodes don't reach for the single digit Amps currents we need here.

    Last but not least another impact is the mounting of the diodes.
    Solder the diodes with keeping the lead wires long may improve the surface area to the dissipate heat. Alternatively we could be using larger copper areas on the board (which we can't change).
    So assuming using new diodes I would suggest to solder them in without clipping the leads. The diodes will be raised from the board but may dissipate heat better via the surface of the lead wires. Clipped leads will be only better when the board has larger copper areas to sink the heat.

    Peter



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    Hi Peter

    I was trying to simplifiy the descriptions and obviously went overboard. I also made a silly mistake about the inductance which is less for parallel connection. I have corrected the post.

    In response to your observations I offer the following comments:-

    The switching action that controls the current is a time chopping signal that has one or other side of the drive conducting. The action is well described in the Toshiba data sheet for the chip on page 24. Link to data sheet http://www.toshiba.com/taec/componen...3_20080215.pdf).

    During the current limit and shape control the parasitic protection diodes play no part and can be taken out. (However the diodes are needed if or when both sides of the output circuit are non conducting. At that instant the diodes catch the back emf caused by the colapsing field and any mechanical energy due to the shaft of the motor continuing to spin.)

    Toshiba do not claim to have any on chip protection diodes. They don't need them if the chip is used in accordancve with the data sheet and the chip continues to operate until the currents in the coils of the motor are reduced to zero.

    Yes uprating the diodes on the PCB will help. However the clamping conduction voltage drop will not reduce the power disipated very much as the power is the number of joules stored in the magnetic circuit when the chip is turned off. The motor running current does not pass through these diodes. I question why the chip is being turned off and the drive circuit is not bringing the motor to rest and maintaining a holding current in the motor coils.

    On reflection I am questioning the drive circuit for the Toshiba output chip. To get large amounts of power disipated in the protection diodes suggests that the chip is being turned off on a regular basis. This is not the purpose of the chip and is the most probable cause of the heating problem assuming the motors are just not way too large for the drivers. By too large I mean overly high inductance.

    Please respond as I have drivers that use these chips but are European manufacture not far east - or so the PCB claims! These are used with Mach3 and the de-aceleration is controled by Mach and the motors have a standing current being pulsed through then all the time. The diodes are cool to the touch - I do not suggest touching them with the power on as you can get a bit of a shock from stepper motors.

    Hope this is helping.

    Regards

    Pat



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    Quote Originally Posted by wildwestpat View Post
    Toshiba do not claim to have any on chip protection diodes. They don't need them if the chip is used in accordancve with the data sheet and the chip continues to operate until the currents in the coils of the motor are reduced to zero.
    Parasitic diodes just suddenly appeared on page 24 of the linked Toshiba spec
    I guess you meant Toshiba does not specify adding external diodes. I overlooked that Toshiba uses synchronous rectification (page 24, Slow mode).
    On TA8435 external diodes are mandatory as the chip is not using synchronous rectification.

    Considering this the diodes should run much colder with the TB6560. This of cause assumes that they are genuine Toshiba chips. Possible that there are chinese clones without synchronous rectification.

    Quote Originally Posted by wildwestpat View Post
    During the current limit and shape control the parasitic protection diodes play no part and can be taken out. (However the diodes are needed if or when both sides of the output circuit are non conducting. At that instant the diodes catch the back emf caused by the colapsing field and any mechanical energy due to the shaft of the motor continuing to spin.)
    What about the 300ns dead time mentioned on page 25 ?
    This is were the parasitic diodes become handy.

    Assuming the same poor diode selection on the TA8435 using a 500ns speed diode is not helpfull here.
    Actually on synchronous rectification design I would have suggested using a underrated diode but have it as fast as possible. Underrate is here possible as in a synchronous recticication design the diodes are only conducting for the small dead time. Hence the diode current is just a short pulse and we need no diode that can carry the full coil current permanently. E.g. the FR307 would be able to handle 200Amp peak current.

    Quote Originally Posted by wildwestpat View Post
    On reflection I am questioning the drive circuit for the Toshiba output chip. To get large amounts of power disipated in the protection diodes suggests that the chip is being turned off on a regular basis. This is not the purpose of the chip and is the most probable cause of the heating problem assuming the motors are just not way too large for the drivers. By too large I mean overly high inductance.
    Just to sort things, I don't have the TB6560 board. I'm using a TA8435 board that need these diodes.
    We need to have this verified from someone with the TB6560 board from eBay. If they also run cold it might be a simple suggestion to upgrade the board for the full 3Amps drive current by changing the reference resistors.
    My warning was just an interpolation of the hot diodes on TA8435 boards of the same make with just 1,5Amps drive current and the same diodes seemingly being used on the TB6560 boards too.

    Peter



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    I received my board a couple of days ago. The current set resistor appears to be red,red,silver,gold or .22ohm. The diodes read R307 MIC which is the best I can see with them soldered on the board. I have not yet powered up the board, but I will post feedback once I do.
    I have also ordered the other board (red PCB) posted on this blog. It will take 10+ days to get. The red board has no diodes and .16 current set resistors based on the photograph on Ebay.
    Regards,
    Ron Chacich



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    Hi Peter

    Do you have any information of the chip used in the driver board you are using?

    On the TB6560 the point to note is that the two output stages are acting as a bridge and clamp opposite ends of the motor coil to alternate sides of the motor supply in rotation to cause the motor to nudge step to step. Since the output semiconductors can not change state instantly in response to the drive there an arrange driver dead gap so that the power supply is not shorted out by the power output semiconductors. This is normal practice and is arranged either by relying on the charge storage time being consistent chip to chip - batch to batch and opting for a fixed time gap OR by using logic to feed back a detected state that prevents the other half of the pair conducting until it has switched off to say half of the motor supply voltage.

    I have designed very high power bridge circuits for inductive loads using this principle. When the current being switched reaches hundreds of amps the storage time in the switching semiconductors increases rapidly and a bit of firm ware logic sorts the problem with out 'letting go' of the ends of the inductance. There would be no reason for Toshiba to put this in the data sheet as it is integral with the computing part of their chip design. The time delay you are pointing to I believe relates to the change of operation of the chip and can be programmed by manipulating the appropriate pins.

    Hope this helps but I agree we are all interested in our own boards and even assuming the parts are genuine the configurations are very different.

    I have just looked up the inductance data an the three types of stepper I currently have to hand – it is pouring with rain and the workshop is too far from the house for a quick sprint!

    1.0Nm holding torque 10mH inductance parallel bipolar 1.4 amps and 4.34 volts
    1.8Nm holding torque 1.6mH inductance parallel bipolar 4 amps and 2.0volts
    3.0Nm holding torque 3.2mH inductance parallel bipolar 4.2 amps and 2.73 volts

    These are the sort of motors used on small bench mills with dove tail slides and bags of friction even when fitted with ballscrews! A very different environment to a router mill where the motion speeds and distances are much higher.

    Hope we can all become comfortable with our respective electronics.

    Regards

    Pat



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    I looked around the HYU site (as if I understand Chinese) and saw they make CNC Machines of all sizes. These boards must be from one of those machines.

    I Also purchased a TB6560 off Ebay from Savebase. I was surprised it actually came shipped from China and it got here fast for being so far away. I am being careful and reading what everybody suggests before hooking it up. I'm using a dead Cricut as a test platform. The Cricut came with an 18v power supply so it shouldn't fry anything right off.



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    On my board they look Red, Red, Silver, and Gold. I don't know how to tell the 0.33ohm or 5%
    "as Originally Posted by Mad Professor
    The current sence resistors are, Orange, Orange, Silver, Gold, 0.33ohm 5%."

    There are also some little surface mount resistors in same area and pattern with markings of 330K and on back are with markings of 1K and 104.



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    My board also appears to have the 0.22 ohm resistors and the R307-MIC diodes.
    It's the 5-axis tb6560 "borad" from Savebase. www.hyu68.com is marked on the bottom of the board, so it's almost certainly the TB5DV-M (not to mention the manuals match what's available on the hyu68 site).

    The board itself seems pretty chunky and reasonably high quality, at least compared to the Xylotex 4 axis I was using previously. So far, so good...



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    Thumbs down Beware of your input voltage.

    I finally had some time to test my TB6560 board from ebay today.(blue PCB) I purchased a 36V switching power supply to use with the board, but I didn't use it to test the board. I have a 3 amp variable voltage benchtop supply that I use when testing drivers. It has a digital display to allow me to see the amp draw. I started by testing the board at 24V. It powered up and it has 2 red leds to show power is on. Since they are near the 5V and 12V voltage regulators, I am assuming there is one for each voltage.

    I attached an Automation Direct 276in-oz motor to the x axis rated at 2.8 amp. I had the board set at 100% current. With the board powered up, the motor wasn't on. I followed the instructions on the mini cd and configured Mach3. You must configure enable outputs in order to turn on the drivers. After configuring Mach 3, the motor locked up with power on as expected. I ran the motor at 1/8 and 1/16 step resolution and I tried all 4 settings for the decay. There is another led on the board that shows when the board is getting step pulses from the computer. This is no Geckodrive. Do not expect the motors to be quiet and vibration free. The motor ran the smoothest on the slow decay mode. When running the motor using the motor tuning screen, the board running 1 axis draws .5 amps from the power supply. The motor remained cool along with the bottom of the axis driver chip. I did accidentally touch the 12V regulator heat sink, and it was hot. I started testing maximum rpm, which was no where near the performance of the Geckodrive G540, but I was testing at half of the voltage that I run with the Geckodrive.

    The next step was to turn up the voltage so that I could determine the top speed at the voltage that I was going to run at. I slowly turned up the voltage and tested the motor as I increased the voltage. Everything ran fine at 30V. I then turned up to 32V and smoked the driver chip. The silk screen in the board reads 12-36V. I let the board sit for a minute and then powered it up again. It maxed out the current on my test power supply. I am done testing.

    Hopefully this helps others save their boards.

    Best Regards,
    Ron Chacich



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    Did your driver chip end up looking like mine?

    http://www.mad-professor.co.uk/Misc/...AHQ%20Chip.jpg

    As said back in post #5 I was running the board at 36vdc, the board did power up fine without smoking unto I turned it off and then back on again, So I am thinking it was more a voltage spike more then the set voltage at fault.

    I removed the damaged chip and powered the board back up again with my bench power supply set to 13.8volts, and all the power leds came on, and the other axis still work.



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