For an advanced hobbiest -Which inverter/spindle?

[Goemon]

I have been looking/searching for a while. The higher end Teknomotor seems to be a very good option, its on my list for sure

I have been looking/searching for a while. The higher end Teknomotor seems to be a very good option, its on my list for sure

Before you make a final decision on a new spindle, I highly recommend checking out the refurbished spindles at some of the reputable online retailers. Not all of the good deals are on eBay. I found some awesome deals on ex demo units and rebuilt spindles with new bearings (that came with full or 6 month warranty).

I am still kicking myself that I didn't snap some of them up when first I saw them. Any genuinely good deals don't last very long. Most of the used spindles on eBay were there for the whole 6 months I was looking. They never move and prices are never reduced. I got so sick of staring at the same awful deals waiting for something good. I get frustrated again just thinking about it. Those vendors that couldn't even tell you what toolholder a spindle has were particularly annoying.... as were the "we have no way of testing it" crowd.

[ger21]

a 2.2kw electric fan cooled Teknomotor for $800,

I'm guessing the shipping on this would be about $100 from the Netherlands, bringing the total to about $1100??


https://www.damencnc.com/products/mi...4_w_31_32_GB_1

The person I know with the Teknomotor has 2 or 3 I think. I'm not convinced that they are better then the GMT spindles.
CNC Router Parts sells GMT spindles, and I've been told by them that they are very reliable.

[ericks]

I'm guessing the shipping on this would be about $100 from the Netherlands, bringing the total to about $1100??


https://www.damencnc.com/products/mi...4_w_31_32_GB_1

The person I know with the Teknomotor has 2 or 3 I think. I'm not convinced that they are better then the GMT spindles.
CNC Router Parts sells GMT spindles, and I've been told by them that they are very reliable.

Thanks for the info, i will look at these as well

[joe90023]

I'm guessing the shipping on this would be about $100 from the Netherlands, bringing the total to about $1100??...

Teknomotor has a USA distributor. No prices are listed so it's hard to comparison shop but shipping within the US should be a lot cheaper. To OZ, maybe not.
American Spindle, Electrospindles and electric motors (representing Teknomotor)

[A_Camera]

Most homes here can accommodate a 50 amp 240v breaker and some even higher (depending on what type of heating system they have).

Surely that is NOT single phase you are talking about but split phase...

My 5.6kw spindle draws 19amps 3ph which means it needs just under 40amps from a 1ph outlet (according to my VFDs manual). I wouldn't want to go up in power from that where I live but others do. There is no need to limit yourself to 2.2kw if you need more.

In Europe (and many other parts of the world) when you have such high power requirements you have three phases to satisfy that and higher voltage on each phase. In fact, almost every home in Europe has three phases plus neutral which is then spread as single phases inside the hose for light and ordinary wall plugs except for the stove, oven and heating (in some cases) so installing an additional three phase plug is simple. Anyway, it is not my decision to limit at 2.2kW but I guess it is logical and economically not feasible to make single phase VFDs with high power because of the better technology with three phases. The selling volume of single phase VFDs at higher power than 2.2kW would be very low and technically it would not be a good idea because of the high current needs. As discussed before, it is not very efficient to run three phase VFD from single phase or like you do, split phase. You can do it, but not a good idea. Sort of like having a car with a V8 engine which runs on 7 cylinders only. That's the way I see it. Others may not agree with me, but that's OK.

[ericks]

Sadly i am limited by single phase and also not much current. I am building a rigid machine but with everything i need running in the shed i can only go 0.75 kW or max 1.5 kW.

[mactec54]

Surely that is NOT single phase you are talking about but split phase...



In Europe (and many other parts of the world) when you have such high power requirements you have three phases to satisfy that and higher voltage on each phase. In fact, almost every home in Europe has three phases plus neutral which is then spread as single phases inside the hose for light and ordinary wall plugs except for the stove, oven and heating (in some cases) so installing an additional three phase plug is simple. Anyway, it is not my decision to limit at 2.2kW but I guess it is logical and economically not feasible to make single phase VFDs with high power because of the better technology with three phases. The selling volume of single phase VFDs at higher power than 2.2kW would be very low and technically it would not be a good idea because of the high current needs. As discussed before, it is not very efficient to run three phase VFD from single phase or like you do, split phase. You can do it, but not a good idea. Sort of like having a car with a V8 engine which runs on 7 cylinders only. That's the way I see it. Others may not agree with me, but that's OK.

The split phase they have in NA is no different, it is called 120v single Phase or 240v Single Phase, so they have a choice in NA, and depending on how old the home is, all modern homes have a standard 200A supply you can have as much as you like my house I have a 400A supply and can have more if I have a need, it is very expensive to have 3 Phase power installed in a residential home in NA, and is more expensive per Kw for the service as well, it is much cheaper to use the 240v Single Phase power supply, they have Phase Converters in NA which can be used if you need 3 Phase power for larger motors / machines Etc, one of the best phase converters is call Phase Perfect Phase Perfect
These are expensive , but a one time cost, and are cheaper to run than having a 3phase supply installed as well as a monthly fee to have the 3 Ph connection

[ericks]

The split phase they have in NA is no different, it is called 120v single Phase or 240v Single Phase, so they have a choice in NA, and depending on how old the home is, all modern homes have a standard 200A supply you can have as much as you like my house I have a 400A supply and can have more if I have a need, it is very expensive to have 3 Phase power installed in a residential home in NA, and is more expensive per Kw for the service as well, it is much cheaper to use the 240v Single Phase power supply, they have Phase Converters in NA which can be used if you need 3 Phase power for larger motors / machines Etc, one of the best phase converters is call Phase Perfect Phase Perfect
These are expensive , but a one time cost, and are cheaper to run than having a 3phase supply installed as well as a monthly fee to have the 3 Ph connection

Wow you are lucky to have all that power available to you......it's not fair!!

[A_Camera]

The split phase they have in NA is no different, it is called 120v single Phase or 240v Single Phase, so they have a choice in NA, and depending on how old the home is, all modern homes have a standard 200A supply you can have as much as you like my house I have a 400A supply and can have more if I have a need, it is very expensive to have 3 Phase power installed in a residential home in NA, and is more expensive per Kw for the service as well, it is much cheaper to use the 240v Single Phase power supply, they have Phase Converters in NA which can be used if you need 3 Phase power for larger motors / machines Etc, one of the best phase converters is call Phase Perfect Phase Perfect
These are expensive , but a one time cost, and are cheaper to run than having a 3phase supply installed as well as a monthly fee to have the 3 Ph connection

200-400A for a single house...? That requires a small power station for a tiny village.

[ericks]

Our standard is only 63A 230V/A-N
The guys with three phase have 63A per phase

[ChuckC]

Wow. And I thought bringing 240 volt, 300 Amps to the house was marginal, as I split a 100 amp sub-panel off it for just my garage... Of course, I live in Texas, so... I've got a neighbor that has 400 amps to his "shed". The grid seems to handle it fine, but then we have one transformer for every 2 houses.

So how much power does a guy need in a spindle, besides "more"? I know it's really a technical discussion about feed rates, etc. but again, for the hobbiest that wants to cut some serious lumber what is practical? Let's use an example of a small machine; 3/4 inch Birch ply at thickest and then a large machine, with 3/4 inch SYP paint grade ply as an example. The small one, I'd GUESS 1.5 KW might be ideal largest size due to table constraints and how many KW or HP for something designed to cut up 4 foot by 8 foot 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch plywood? Think along the lines of cabinet making.

Again, I know I can do the theoretical, however the experience cuts to the chase and brings in the element of "what's worked in the past". Make sense?

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, Loving this site - wish I had more garage time...

Thanks guys-

Chuck

[ger21]

So how much power does a guy need in a spindle, besides "more"? I know it's really a technical discussion about feed rates, etc. but again, for the hobbiest that wants to cut some serious lumber what is practical? Let's use an example of a small machine; 3/4 inch Birch ply at thickest and then a large machine, with 3/4 inch SYP paint grade ply as an example. The small one, I'd GUESS 1.5 KW might be ideal largest size due to table constraints and how many KW or HP for something designed to cut up 4 foot by 8 foot 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch plywood? Think along the lines of cabinet making.

I'd say 2.2Kw minimum, and maybe 4-5Kw would be preferable. We use a 15HP spindle to cut cabinet parts at my day job.

[mactec54]

Wow. And I thought bringing 240 volt, 300 Amps to the house was marginal, as I split a 100 amp sub-panel off it for just my garage... Of course, I live in Texas, so... I've got a neighbor that has 400 amps to his "shed". The grid seems to handle it fine, but then we have one transformer for every 2 houses.

So how much power does a guy need in a spindle, besides "more"? I know it's really a technical discussion about feed rates, etc. but again, for the hobbiest that wants to cut some serious lumber what is practical? Let's use an example of a small machine; 3/4 inch Birch ply at thickest and then a large machine, with 3/4 inch SYP paint grade ply as an example. The small one, I'd GUESS 1.5 KW might be ideal largest size due to table constraints and how many KW or HP for something designed to cut up 4 foot by 8 foot 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch plywood? Think along the lines of cabinet making.

Again, I know I can do the theoretical, however the experience cuts to the chase and brings in the element of "what's worked in the past". Make sense?

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, Loving this site - wish I had more garage time...

Thanks guys-

Chuck

For a machine like what you are planning, a 25 to 30 Amp supply is all you would need for NA, your spindle is what will needs the most, so will depend on what size your spindle is, as an example a Bridgeport Boss type mill with servos 3 Hp spindle motor needs a 25 Amp supply a Haas Mini Mill needs a 60 Amp supply 7.5 Hp spindle motor

[mactec54]

Our standard is only 63A 230V/A-N
The guys with three phase have 63A per phase

I have some Buildings near to Australia that use the same standards as you, and one had a 60 Amp 3 Ph mains cable fail, I had it replaced with 100 Amp cable, it was not an issue, I think if you have a need, and the supply is there you can have what ever you want

[Goemon]

I'm guessing the shipping on this would be about $100 from the Netherlands, bringing the total to about $1100??


https://www.damencnc.com/products/mi...4_w_31_32_GB_1

The person I know with the Teknomotor has 2 or 3 I think. I'm not convinced that they are better then the GMT spindles.
CNC Router Parts sells GMT spindles, and I've been told by them that they are very reliable.

I am sure that if you called Damon or any of the vendors that sell Teknomotor, or any other brand, the seller will tell you they are reliable. With all due respect to CNC Router Parts (because I like the cables I bought from them) I seriously doubt that they contact all their customers to find out how well their spindles are performing after 15 or 18 months.

I've been skeptical on claims like those since I had back surgery in 2010. My doctor had all sorts of comforting claims while he was trying to persuade me to part with my cash - like "I have a 93% success rate". After the procedure and after I had paid my bill, he had no interest in speaking to me again. It occurred to me that this guy had no idea how successful his procedures were as he never asked any of his patients anything beyond 8 weeks. Now I always need to ask "would they really know?". Where does this data come from?

I have no direct experience with either brand. I have no idea which is actually better. I am just saying that I prefer to hear such claims direct from end users. When I was spindle shopping, I couldn't find any track record of satisfied customers with GMT spindles. In the absence of real user reviews, I use other data points. As I said, I just don't believe there are that many GMT spindles out there in circulation.

I only found good reviews on Teknomotor but I trust what you say about your friend's direct experience. If he bought 3, he can't have hated them too much though. Do you know which model or models he tried? It would be interesting to know if it was the cheap 1 bearing kind or their premium offering. And, how many hours the bearings lasted plus how heavy duty the load was.

I might change my mind once there are some user reviews out there for GMT spindles but as it currently stands, if I choose to spend $1500 on a 4.5kw spindle, I am going to go with an HSD. I see no reason to take chance.To each his own though.

[Goemon]

200-400A for a single house...? That requires a small power station for a tiny village.

No it doesn't. You just need a large enough main breaker. 150a or 200a main breakers are fairly standard in my area. I never asked what the largest breaker you could install is but I know it is higher than that.

[mactec54]

No it doesn't. You just need a large enough main breaker. 150a or 200a main breakers are fairly standard in my area. I never asked what the largest breaker you could install is but I know it is higher than that.

200A is what the standard is in NA, and the Breaker does not go above that for residential, for the installs they just keep adding 200A mains supply Panels, like 200A + 200A Etc to what ever you need or the power company will let you install

[A_Camera]

No it doesn't. You just need a large enough main breaker. 150a or 200a main breakers are fairly standard in my area. I never asked what the largest breaker you could install is but I know it is higher than that.

The breaker is one thing, the cable is another. Even if you have a transformer for each house it still requires some heavy wiring after the transformer and of course, quite a lot of power before. Not only that, but the grid must support everyone at about the same time, so of course, that requires a small power station (joke) for each village. My home has only 3 x 25A 230V on each phase and I feel that's enough for a normal home, even though I have a large house and electric heating.

[mactec54]

The breaker is one thing, the cable is another. Even if you have a transformer for each house it still requires some heavy wiring after the transformer and of course, quite a lot of power before. Not only that, but the grid must support everyone at about the same time, so of course, that requires a small power station (joke) for each village. My home has only 3 x 25A 230V on each phase and I feel that's enough for a normal home, even though I have a large house and electric heating.

In reality, that's not much different you have 230v 75A available, NA at 120V would have to have roughly 150A to be the same as your 75A so a standard 200A supply is not a lot different than what you have

[A_Camera]

In reality, that's not much different you have 230v 75A available, NA at 120V would have to have roughly 150A to be the same as your 75A so a standard 200A supply is not a lot different than what you have

It is true if you mean 120V 200A but I thought you meant 240V 200A since that is three times as much as I have.

But OK... we are too far off topic here.