A few VFD wiring questions....

[ericks]

Your motor has six connections.....this allows it to be "configured" in star or delta. If your drive was a 380V unit then you would have connected it in star. In your case because you have a 230V drive it was done in delta. So that part is all good. You have those three bridging plates across the six terminals. So you will connect U from your drive to any one....V on your drive to any one of the two left over and W to the last one.

[ericks]

Do you understand my explanation?

[Goemon]

There is no neutral wire used. Neutral in the US if only for 120V.



The two sets are tied together, so you can connect it to either one. I'd connect them to the side where the wire enters the box.

Thanks.

What about V and W? Is this the same (I.e. I can connect to either v1 or v2 and I don't need to two wires going from V on the VFD to v1 and v2 on the spindle)? I.e. There is just 3 power wires total going from VFD to spindle.

On the power in to the VFD, just to confirm I understand what you are saying... regardless if I am connecting from a 3 pin or 4 pin power outlet, there is just 2 wires going from the wall to the VFD (I.e. The 3rd and 4th pins are not connected)?

I grew up abroad in 220v countries where all plugs have 3 pins (that are connected). I have only used 220v here in America to plug in my dryer and that uses a 3 pin plug with 3 wires. I thought (obviously incorrectly) that the 3rd wire was neutral.

This guy seems to have 4 wires from his power in cable connected to his VFD, is his wiring wrong?

Setting up a Huanyang VFD for a CNC router spindle — The Half-Baked Maker

[Goemon]

I agree with you Gerry...he should get someone to help him!

Please.... no more comments like this. They don't help and no matter what anyone says, I am not hiring an "industrial electrician" to come here to connect 6 wires to some screw terminals. I am perfectly capable of following instructions and this really isn't that hard once you know which pins to connect.

I am trying to get help here from people who have done it before. Either help or go do something else.

[ericks]

Please.... no more comments like this. They don't help and no matter what anyone says, I am not hiring an "industrial electrician" to come here to connect 6 wires to some screw terminals. I am perfectly capable of following instructions and this really isn't that hard once you know which pins to connect.

I am trying to get help here from people who have done it before. Either help or go do something else.

No worries...i will not help you any further. Hope you get this sorted

[Al_The_Man]

Thanks.

What about V and W? Is this the same (I.e. I can connect to either v1 or v2 and I don't need to two wires going from V on the VFD to v1 and v2 on the spindle)? I.e. There is just 3 power wires total going from VFD to spindle.

On the power in to the VFD, just to confirm I understand what you are saying... regardless if I am connecting from a 3 pin or 4 pin power outlet, there is just 2 wires going from the wall to the VFD (I.e. The 3rd and 4th pins are not connected)?

I grew up abroad in 220v countries where all plugs have 3 pins (that are connected). I have only used 220v here in America to plug in my dryer and that uses a 3 pin plug with 3 wires. I thought (obviously incorrectly) that the 3rd wire was neutral.

This guy seems to have 4 wires from his power in cable connected to his VFD, is his wiring wrong?

Setting up a Huanyang VFD for a CNC router spindle — The Half-Baked Maker

You have three terminals marked U,V,W at the VFD, you also have three terminals marked U1,V1,W1 at the motor, these and the ground are the simple four wire hookup.

The guy in the video has connected the neutral as well as L1 & L2 which he has no need to.
If a neutral is connected it is actually reverse biased WRT the Rectifier DC in, which means it is not doing a darned thing and should not be connected. essentially useless.
Incidentally I have talked to a few Industrial electricians that have never come across a VFD!
Al.
.

[Goemon]

Markings on that terminal block are not very clear. Gerry, do you know the make of this motor?

It is a PDS ADES 90 220v 7.5hp / 5.6kw. The "S" in the ADE series means it's electric fan cooled. ADEV models are shaft fan.

Not that this helps much. There is not a single page on the whole internet (at least not in English) on wiring this model.

[Goemon]

You have three terminals marked U,V,W at the VFD, you also have three terminals marked U,V,W at the motor, these and the ground are the simple hookup.

The guy in the video has connected the neutral as well as L1 & L2 which he has no need to.
If a neutral is connected it is actually reverse biased WRT the Rectifier DC in, which means it is not doing a darned thing and should not be connected. essentially useless.
Incidentally I have talked to a few Industrial electricians that have never come across a VFD!
Al.
.

Thank you.

There are 6 connections for power plus ground on my spindle. There is U1 u2 v1 v2 w1 and w2. But it sounds like the advice is to ignore the second set and to just use 4 wires from VFD to spindle. U on VFD to U1 on spindle, v to v1, w to w1 and ground (on far left of vfd) to ground on top left of spindle.

Then 2 of the 3 (or 4 wires) from the power outlet connect to the VFD and that's it (if I want to just control the spindle from the VFD). I know more wires are needed to control the spindle with Linux CNC but first things first.

That sounds simple enough if I have understood everyone correctly.

I also need to connect 24v power to the fan but that part is easy.

[Goemon]

Do you understand my explanation?

Yes. You made it very clear. That's exactly what I needed. You even anticipated and answered my follow up question about if it matters that u goes to u or if it could go to any of them. I invested in some expensive double shielded "robotics grade" 4 wire spindle cable but all of the three power wires are black with no label. I am greatful that this doesn't matter

It's gone from major headache to simple 5 minute job with a few lines of explanation.

Thank you!

[ericks]

Yes. You made it very clear. That's exactly what I needed. You even anticipated and answered my follow up question about if it matters that u goes to u or if it could go to any of them. I invested in some expensive double shielded "robotics grade" 4 wire spindle cable but all of the three power wires are black with no label. I am greatful that this doesn't matter

It's gone from major headache to simple 5 minute job with a few lines of explanation.

Thank you!

Just remember that your spindle may rotate in the wrong direction. I always change rotation direction on the motor cables... Either on the drive uvw or motor uvw

[mactec54]

Thanks.

What about V and W? Is this the same (I.e. I can connect to either v1 or v2 and I don't need to two wires going from V on the VFD to v1 and v2 on the spindle)? I.e. There is just 3 power wires total going from VFD to spindle.

On the power in to the VFD, just to confirm I understand what you are saying... regardless if I am connecting from a 3 pin or 4 pin power outlet, there is just 2 wires going from the wall to the VFD (I.e. The 3rd and 4th pins are not connected)?

I grew up abroad in 220v countries where all plugs have 3 pins (that are connected). I have only used 220v here in America to plug in my dryer and that uses a 3 pin plug with 3 wires. I thought (obviously incorrectly) that the 3rd wire was neutral.

This guy seems to have 4 wires from his power in cable connected to his VFD, is his wiring wrong?

Setting up a Huanyang VFD for a CNC router spindle — The Half-Baked Maker

Please don't look at any more of what others are doing, that wiring in this Video unless he is using 3 Ph power supply input he has it wired incorrect

Your input power for your VFD Drive you will use your 220v supply 2 Hot and a Ground wire, ( 1 ) Hot to the R terminal the other Hot to the T terminal and the Ground connected to the Ground Screw or Terminal

R and T Plus Ground for input VFD Power supply

Your spindles 3 wires to make it simple U 1 V1 W1 Plus Ground wire connected to the Screw by the Ground symbol

U1 V1 W1 Ground Motor side

U V W Ground VFD side

Then comes the Parameters to set, do not turn on the Spindle before you have the correct Parameters set, I can help you with that

[Goemon]

Just remember that your spindle may rotate in the wrong direction. I always change rotation direction on the motor cables... Either on the drive uvw or motor uvw

I read about that. It sounds like a simple enough fix. Even if the VFD has a reverse setting, I wouldn't want it to default to that.

I am going to test it this afternoon so I can make sure it all works before my warranty runs out.

[Al_The_Man]

Just remember that your spindle may rotate in the wrong direction. I always change rotation direction on the motor cables... Either on the drive uvw or motor uvw

You should explain that you only require to swap any two.

The U1, V1, W1 and U2,V2,W2 are just to indicate the ends of the star-delta windings, you are only concerned with delta, the way the motor is shown in your picture.
Then by only using U1, V1, W1. terminals whether it is star or delta, which BTW is decided by the way the brass straps are placed, in your case it is Delta , three vertical straps,
So regardless, the U1V1W1 is where you terminate the three conductors from the VFD.
And as already mentioned, if the motor revolves the wrong way, you just swap any two of the three motor conductors, ether at the VFD or the motor, your choice.
Al.

[Goemon]

Please don't look at any more of what others are doing, that wiring in this Video unless he is using 3 Ph power supply input he has it wired incorrect

Your input power for your VFD Drive you will use your 220v supply 2 Hot and a Ground wire, ( 1 ) Hot to the R terminal the other Hot to the T terminal and the Ground connected to the Ground Screw or Terminal

R and T Plus Ground for input Power supply

Your spindles 3 wires to make it simple U 1 V1 W1 Plus Ground wire connected to the Screw by the Ground symbol

U1 V1 W1 Ground Motor side

U V W Ground VFD side

Then comes the Parameters to set, do not turn on the Spindle before you have the correct Parameters set, I can help you with that

This is why I came here for advice instead of copying one of the YouTube people that had no business trying to instruct others on this....

I assumed that some or all of the YouTube videos were wrong because they all did something different while wiring the same product and they all used 1ph 220v input so there was no reason for the differences. Never a good sign.

This stuff is not difficult with clear and accurate instructions but It's very dangerous with conflicting advice. I think it's better to keep asking questions until I am confident I understand how to do it right. We all have our own way of understanding things.

I once installed a whole new board and tubes on a crt arcade monitor by just following the instructions of a few good people from a forum like this and that was the most dangerous thing I have ever seen. It felt like playing operation with my life at times but I had confidence in the advice. This is a piece of cake in comparison. I don't even need to get my soldering iron out or put my hand near anything with current. Everything is closed up before you turn it on.

[Goemon]

You seem to have a good quality spindle....if possible you should match it with a descent drive

I plan to eventually. I just couldn't find any good brands with 1ph in 7.5kw VFDs. I would have had to derate a 3ph unit and go up to a 15hp and there was a big price hike for that. I am working with a fairly tight budget currently as I am heavily invested in a few new start-ups.

I spent more than I intended to for my spindle because I saw a deal on a rebuilt one from PDS. I was going to buy the ADEV 90 instead as they have a rebuilt unit going for $950 but I spoke to one of their "experts" who persuaded me that I needed the one with an electric fan and ceramic bearings for my application. So.... I ended up spending double on the ADES 90....

I know a good spindle should be paired with a comparable VFD and I will rectify that in the not too distant future but for now, the cheap Chinese one is marginally better than nothing. I was told that, as long as the Chinese VFD works, I would be unlikely to be able to detect any noticeable differences in performance. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

[Al_The_Man]

one of the YouTube people that had no business trying to instruct others on this....

.

This outlines both the good and the bad of the internet.
Although being a great source of information, just because someone makes a Utube video or a web page, does not make it valid.
The guy in the video did not strike me as someone with a sound electrical background from my point of view watching his .
Al.

[Goemon]

Thank you.....do you have any experience with these spindles? Are they any good?

PDS spindles are made for them by Hiteco. Hiteco brand spindles are sold here too in places that's sell industrial brands although I was told that they are more common in Europe (or maybe the most common in Europe).

As PDS America is an official distributor and service desk for Colombo, I assumed that the quality of their rebuilt spindles would be at least comparable as it done by the same guys.

I spent far too much time agonizing over which brand to get but then I spoke to CNCPD who sells Colombo, PDS, Perske, HSD and Hiteco. They told me that all of these industrial brands are broadly the same in terms of quality, performance and longevity. He said they used to see slightly longer life with Colombo spindles but not any more so I should just choose one that best fit my needs. Who knows though. He described all of them as "throw away spindles".

I intended to buy a Colombo spindle initially but I ended up missing out on the deal I wanted. The only differences I could find in the specs between comparable Colombo and PDS models was in the bearings. The PDS one has 4 precision bearings with the front two being ceramic. The Colombo RS90 has 3 precision bearings all steel.

The PDS stuff definately has an industrial heavy duty feel. The casing is thick steel and feels very solid. I like the look of their new airless auto tool change spindles too.

[mactec54]

I plan to eventually. I just couldn't find any good brands with 1ph in 7.5kw VFDs. I would have had to derate a 3ph unit and go up to a 15hp

No that is incorrect, A 3Ph Drive would be no more derated than your 1 Ph Drive you have, the single Phase Drive you have is a 3 Phase Drive with a label that says you can run it on single phase they are all made the same,

Except for a 120v Ac input VFD having a 220v output and even with this drive, the Drive main components are the same , It just has a voltage doubler at the input stage

So you could use the same 7.5Kw 3phase VFD Drive as what you have for your spindle, and there will be no notable difference in performance

[Goemon]

No that is incorrect, A 3Ph Drive would be no more derated than your 1 Ph Drive you have, the single Phase Drive you have is a 3 Phase Drive with a label that says you can run it on single phase they are all made the same,

Except for a 120v Ac input VFD having a 220v output and even with this drive, the Drive main components are the same , It just has a voltage doubler at the input stage

So you could use the same 7.5Kw 3phase VFD Drive as what you have for your spindle, and there will be no notable difference in performance

That's different to what I was told and what the various sellers claim. Most of what I read said that a drive made for 1ph in 3ph out can be used to run spindles with the same power rating (I.e. a 5.5kw drive for a 5.5kw spindle) but drives made for 3ph in have to be derated by 1.7 or 2 (depending who you ask).

For example, this vendor offers both options with a significant price difference (a 7.5kw 3ph input VFD is far cheaper than the same VFD with 1ph in / 3ph out):

7.5 hp VFD, Single Phase to Three Phase VFD | GoHz.com

If you look in the reviews, there are some questions that are answered by the seller who states "there is no need to derate" (for their 1ph drives) and he goes on to give some explanation on why this is the case.

Aside from that, and more importantly, I also read that the most important thing is to match the input and output amps / current with what you can supply (from your outlet) and what your spindle needs to operate. These numbers were quite different on the 3ph in drives to the 1ph drives I looked at.

Now, VFDs are not my area of expertise. You could be right for all I know. Just because you are the only one saying something doesn't make you wrong - espiecially with anything CNC related where nobody seems to agree on anything. I see lots of posts with people regurgitating info I know for a fact to be wrong. I just have no real way of knowing who are the actual experts who have kept their knowledge current vs people who regurgitate info that was never right or hasn't been right for 20 years.

If 3ph 7.5kw VFDs can be used to run 7.5kw spindles from a 1ph outlet with no derating needed, that is useful info that should be out there so people can stop regurgitating innacurate info.

[ericks]

Best is to consult the manual before you purchase.....i would not trust these sellers!