Seller Funny Business

[joe90023]

If you are going to the trouble of counterfeiting a VFD, at least proofread your labels. Here is a picture showing the labels from three VFDs. All are for the same model but only the top label shows the correct specs for that model. It looks like they got confused when copying the specs out of the catalog and put in the numbers from other models. All three labels are from the SAME ebay seller. They even spelled frequency wrong on one.

That being said, I bought one anyway. It seems to work fine. Parameters seem to show the correct specs for the model number. Time will tell. I figured it couldn't be any worse than the Huanyangs. Maybe it was a contract manufacturer that made some extras to sell out the back door. I big company like Delta maybe puts their own labels on only after the units pass QC and so the back door units need to have back alley labels made up.

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[mactec54]

If you are going to the trouble of counterfeiting a VFD, at least proofread your labels. Here is a picture showing the labels from three VFDs. All are for the same model but only the top label shows the correct specs for that model. It looks like they got confused when copying the specs out of the catalog and put in the numbers from other models. All three labels are from the SAME ebay seller. They even spelled frequency wrong on one.

That being said, I bought one anyway. It seems to work fine. Parameters seem to show the correct specs for the model number. Time will tell. I figured it couldn't be any worse than the Huanyangs. Maybe it was a contract manufacturer that made some extras to sell out the back door. I big company like Delta maybe puts their own labels on only after the units pass QC and so the back door units need to have back alley labels made up.

There might be some spelling mistakes that is normal, all 3 labels are correct, they can have all the same model spec's but for a different Hp value Delta have many different manufactures all over China and other parts of the world as well, just make sure you buy one that is suitable for your motor

Just wrong labeling does not make them counterfeit

[joe90023]

....all 3 labels are correct, they can have all the same model spec's but for a different Hp value....

No disrespect intended, I'm sure your experience in this field is much broader than mine but I don't see how all three labels could be correct.

The Delta catalog clearly shows the output specs associated with a given model number. Drives with different output specs are given different model numbers in the catalog. If you can't believe the catalog specs then how do you decide? It would be impossible to use the catalog to match a drive to a motor. If you order a VFD015 and it shows up with 0.5HP on the label then do you use it with your 2HP motor or do you return it?

The bottom label has specs from the .4kW model AND the .75kW model mixed together even though the model number is from the 1.5kW version. I don't see any logical reason to do this other than a sloppy counterfeit. Also, the internal parameters of the drive I received match the catalog specs, not the labels specs. How could that be intentional? The Ebay seller shows one label on his listing and you receive a label with different specs, also funny business.

All genuine Delta products I have seen have been very high quality, totally professional and consistent. I have the E series version 1.5kW drive from a genuine distributor and the label matches the catalog exactly. The Ebay drive I got seems to work fine and is a good value but I still think there is funny business going on here. My best guess is a back door drive from a contract manufacturer with a sloppy counterfeit label.

[CitizenOfDreams]

The Russian certification logo also looks funny on one of those labels. Here is what it's supposed to look like:

[mactec54]

No disrespect intended, I'm sure your experience in this field is much broader than mine but I don't see how all three labels could be correct.

The Delta catalog clearly shows the output specs associated with a given model number. Drives with different output specs are given different model numbers in the catalog. If you can't believe the catalog specs then how do you decide? It would be impossible to use the catalog to match a drive to a motor. If you order a VFD015 and it shows up with 0.5HP on the label then do you use it with your 2HP motor or do you return it?

The bottom label has specs from the .4kW model AND the .75kW model mixed together even though the model number is from the 1.5kW version. I don't see any logical reason to do this other than a sloppy counterfeit. Also, the internal parameters of the drive I received match the catalog specs, not the labels specs. How could that be intentional? The Ebay seller shows one label on his listing and you receive a label with different specs, also funny business.

All genuine Delta products I have seen have been very high quality, totally professional and consistent. I have the E series version 1.5kW drive from a genuine distributor and the label matches the catalog exactly. The Ebay drive I got seems to work fine and is a good value but I still think there is funny business going on here. My best guess is a back door drive from a contract manufacturer with a sloppy counterfeit label.

If you know how they do this in China you would see, what the problem is, there may be no one in that factory that speaks English, and the label proofreader, ( if there is one ) usually can speak broken English, but would not be able to read what is on the label, so all labels will look the same to them, apart from the obvious I see 3 different labels one for 2Hp one for 1Hp and the .5Hp, this is possibly the only part that is correct, but it does not really matter what is on the label, as they are all the same drive, all the Single Phase E series drives, have all the same parts components, ( Except for the 110/120v SP Drives ) so they all would work from the smallest motor up to the E series drive max motor size for single phase

Concerning for the end user, but for the price difference who is going to care about the label, if the quality of the drive is the same

[Dan911]

No disrespect intended, I'm sure your experience in this field is much broader than mine but I don't see how all three labels could be correct.

The Delta catalog clearly shows the output specs associated with a given model number. Drives with different output specs are given different model numbers in the catalog. If you can't believe the catalog specs then how do you decide? It would be impossible to use the catalog to match a drive to a motor. If you order a VFD015 and it shows up with 0.5HP on the label then do you use it with your 2HP motor or do you return it?

The bottom label has specs from the .4kW model AND the .75kW model mixed together even though the model number is from the 1.5kW version. I don't see any logical reason to do this other than a sloppy counterfeit. Also, the internal parameters of the drive I received match the catalog specs, not the labels specs. How could that be intentional? The Ebay seller shows one label on his listing and you receive a label with different specs, also funny business.

All genuine Delta products I have seen have been very high quality, totally professional and consistent. I have the E series version 1.5kW drive from a genuine distributor and the label matches the catalog exactly. The Ebay drive I got seems to work fine and is a good value but I still think there is funny business going on here. My best guess is a back door drive from a contract manufacturer with a sloppy counterfeit label.

Hi Joe,

I can relate to your concerns. when purchasing a Delta your expecting the higher quality that comes along with it regardless of price. These labels show a lack of quality control and you have to wonder where else it is lacking.

Dan

[joe90023]

If you know how they do this in China....

I am well aware of how things are done in China. Every transaction has two faces. The front door deal and the back door deal. Counterfeits of counterfeits. There is hardly a shortage of counterfeiting knowledge in China. It's a whole industry by itself.

....but it does not really matter what is on the label, as they are all the same drive, all the Single Phase E series drives, have all the same parts components, ( Except for the 110/120v SP Drives ) so they all would work from the smallest motor up to the E series drive max motor size for single phase....

I'm skeptical. The 230V single phase E series come in two different size cases. Do they have the same components in both size cases? More importantly, the firmware has to be the correct version. My 2.0HP E series drive can't be programmed 3.0HP output amperage if I read it right. Even my M series drive with the inaccurate label seems to have the correct firmware for the model number. Is a 0.25HP drive with 0.25HP firmware going to have parameters for a 3HP motor? Flashing the 3HP firmware into the 0.25HP drive could be dangerous for an unsuspecting end user with a 0.25HP motor. A very incompetent counterfeiter might do it but Delta never would.

....Concerning for the end user, but for the price difference who is going to care about the label, if the quality of the drive is the same

The concerns of the end user, the paying customer, is the most important thing. What else matters? Maybe in China where the state controls all industries you have to accept whatever you are allowed to have without complaint. But if they expect to gain market share among foreign customers with different expectations then they are only hurting themselves. A short sighted mentality only yields short term dividends.

I'm happy with my counterfeit drive. I expected it to be counterfeit for the price I paid. It's for a very undemanding application and should work fine. But it's still useful to have the discussion about what to watch out for and make some observations about the market in general. I'm not intending to be adversarial, just intending to expand my knowledge. I certainly don't expect you to apologize for sloppy counterfeit labels. I appreciate the many helpful responses you make here at cnczone.

[joe90023]

Hi Joe,

I can relate to your concerns. when purchasing a Delta your expecting the higher quality that comes along with it regardless of price. These labels show a lack of quality control and you have to wonder where else it is lacking.

Dan

I expected my drive might be counterfeit given the very cheap price. It will have an easy life so I think it will be OK but it would be something to worry about for more demanding applications. I only needed a 1.0HP drive but this 2.0HP drive was cheaper than any 1.0HP I found. China counterfeiters are notorious for trying to save 1 penny with a substandard component even if it increases the failure rate by 10%. Time will tell.

[mactec54]

I'm skeptical. The 230V single phase E series come in two different size cases. Do they have the same components in both size cases? More importantly, the firmware has to be the correct version. My 2.0HP E series drive can't be programmed 3.0HP output amperage if I read it right. Even my M series drive with the inaccurate label seems to have the correct firmware for the model number. Is a 0.25HP drive with 0.25HP firmware going to have parameters for a 3HP motor? Flashing the 3HP firmware into the 0.25HP drive could be dangerous for an unsuspecting end user with a 0.25HP motor. A very incompetent counterfeiter might do it but Delta never would.

Don't be, firmware has nothing to do with it

Any VFD Drive not just the Delta, they are adjustable to run any 3phase motor up to the VFD Drive max rating, only one parameter is need to be adjusted max amps, for the motor you want to run with it, every other parameter setting would be the same for a 3Hp or a .25Hp

[joe90023]

I was skeptical when you said in post #5

....so they all would work from the smallest motor up to the E series drive max motor size for single phase...

So now you confirm they all won't work up to the max E series motor size because the max amp parameter limits each drive. We agree, the 0.25HP version is not going to run a 3.0HP motor. Maybe the internal components are the same but the firmware won't let you run a 3.0HP motor on a 0.25HP drive. I have confirmed that my 2.0HP E series drive will not set the max amp parameter to the 3.0HP setting.

My new M series drive has the firmware parameters for a 2.0HP drive but the label says only 1.0HP. I understand how China works and I don't expect you to apologize on their behalf.

[mactec54]

I was skeptical when you said in post #5

So now you confirm they all won't work up to the max E series motor size because the max amp parameter limits each drive. We agree, the 0.25HP version is not going to run a 3.0HP motor. Maybe the internal components are the same but the firmware won't let you run a 3.0HP motor on a 0.25HP drive. I have confirmed that my 2.0HP E series drive will not set the max amp parameter to the 3.0HP setting.

My new M series drive has the firmware parameters for a 2.0HP drive but the label says only 1.0HP. I understand how China works and I don't expect you to apologize on their behalf.

Not at all, I think you have everything backwards, and still have no real understanding of what we are talking about

Lets try again Each drive has a max amp rating it is possible to use any 3ph motor up to the VFD Drives max Amps

You can't add a bigger motor to a VFD, if the VFD Amp rating is lower, than the motor, when you size a VFD for single phase use, the VFD should have a higher Hp rating than the motor you want to run, a good practice is 1-2Hp larger than the motor you want to run

[joe90023]

Not at all, I think you have everything backwards, and still have no real understanding of what we are talking about

Lets try again Each drive has a max amp rating it is possible to use any 3ph motor up to the VFD Drives max Amps

You can't add a bigger motor to a VFD, if the VFD Amp rating is lower, than the motor, when you size a VFD for single phase use, the VFD should have a higher Hp rating than the motor you want to run, a good practice is 1-2Hp larger than the motor you want to run

I understand all of that completely. I said a 0.25HP drive won't run a 3.0HP motor. See the decimal points? They are important, as are periods. Maybe you read too quickly and misinterpreted.

I only wanted to correct your post #5. You wrote that all E series the drives are the same inside and will run any motor up to the max motor size for single phase. That is clearly false as you just now explained. Maybe you did not mean it that way but your writing style seems a bit too rushed to be clear. Just like the Chinese label writers.

[mactec54]

I understand all of that completely. I said a 0.25HP drive won't run a 3.0HP motor. See the decimal points? They are important, as are periods. Maybe you read too quickly and misinterpreted.

I only wanted to correct your post #5. You wrote that all E series the drives are the same inside and will run any motor up to the max motor size for single phase. That is clearly false as you just now explained. Maybe you did not mean it that way but your writing style seems a bit too rushed to be clear. Just like the Chinese label writers.

It is very clear what I wrote and there is nothing false about it, it is correct in every way, I just added another important element the amperage of the drives being used, a .25Hp drive will run a 3hp motor if you know what the amp rating of the drive is, the label is not going to tell you this

This is the same as someone wanting to buy a single phase drive, when they don't have too, as any 3ph drive will run on single phase, you just have to know how to wire it, they sell single phase drive because they can make more money out of those that don't know, all the low Hp VFD Drives are all the same inside