Yaskawa V1000 / Mach3 modbus connection

[A_Camera]

The Bosch have it listed in the manual as supported. So of course it accepts reading/writing to single register. The Yaskawa supports only three function codes, 03h, 08h and 10h (page 365) and there is no reason to experiment with unsupported codes, even if it might work. No benefits in it.

USB is not an issue in this sort of application with Mach3. Mach3 resend all the messages periodically and unless the error rate is too high, the communication is automatically recovered. A few missing messages never cause an issue. USB is/may be a problem for motion controllers because there is no big chance of recovery and they are more sensitive. But... wiring is very important. Not using shielded wires is asking for trouble. Also the type of USB - RS485 converter is critical, some are better than others.

[Mmpie]

Good idea about the Ethernet cable, why didn't I think of that. I already have a spare one long enough. I've had to leave it now for today so will get that wired in tomorrow.

On grounding the shield I was under the impression that only one end should ever be earthed to protect a signal cable?

I don't think Mach3 or the USB converter are the issue. Everything was fine separately with no issue until I wrote the brain and tried to use them all together with normal spindle commands, then the problems started.

Writing commands still works despite the CRC error. In modbus test I can turn the spindle on and off, CW and CCW (just to test) and set the frequency to anything and it all works, only the inputs don't work now and cause a crash when tried to use except in modbus test it doesn't crash, it just doesn't do anything and tells me there's a CRC error.

I already changed the spindle on/off and frequency to be in the same config. It works absolutely fine with the spindle dro button, m3, s*****, m5 all works as it should.


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[Mmpie]

The Bosch have it listed in the manual as supported. So of course it accepts reading/writing to single register. The Yaskawa supports only three function codes, 03h, 08h and 10h (page 365) and there is no reason to experiment with unsupported codes, even if it might work. No benefits in it.

Perhaps I should tie the output frequency and current together into one config if that's possible? As i understand if config #0 is address 36, then in the brain window selecting config #0 and putting 2 in address to use should be 36 + 2 = 38 (output current)?

Or is that wrong? That is how I tied spindle on/off and set frequency together into one config.


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[A_Camera]

Perhaps I should tie the output frequency and current together into one config if that's possible? As i understand if config #0 is address 36, then in the brain window selecting config #0 and putting 2 in address to use should be 36 + 2 = 38 (output current)?

Or is that wrong? That is how I tied spindle on/off and set frequency together into one config.


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No, if you want to tie the 36 and 38 together then you need to put 3 in it, not 2. Remember that you want to read three registers, but interested in two only, the middle one (37) is thrown away, but still needs to be read.

Anyway, even if the commands reading and writing of multiple registers are used (03h and 10h) you can still read individual registers but it is neater to read and write in batches because it generates less overhead in the communication. Never the less, neither of the approaches are wrong. Apply whichever you like. What I mean by "cleaning" is that because you currently experiencing problems, it is better to focus on the critial and most important parts and ignore reading parameters until the control is fixed. That's how I'd do because that reduces possible error sources.

[A_Camera]

Good idea about the Ethernet cable, why didn't I think of that. I already have a spare one long enough. I've had to leave it now for today so will get that wired in tomorrow.

On grounding the shield I was under the impression that only one end should ever be earthed to protect a signal cable?

Well, yes and no. I have the following USB converter:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/23157046638...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The shield can't be connected, only the signal + and - so the shield can only be connected to the VFD signal GND, but the Ethernet RS485 converter I am using requires to be connected to the signal GND on both ends, otherwise the communication intermittently fail and command response will be worse at the VFD side due to intermittently missing or erroneous messages, but it still works.

I don't think Mach3 or the USB converter are the issue. Everything was fine separately with no issue until I wrote the brain and tried to use them all together with normal spindle commands, then the problems started.

Writing commands still works despite the CRC error. In modbus test I can turn the spindle on and off, CW and CCW (just to test) and set the frequency to anything and it all works, only the inputs don't work now and cause a crash when tried to use except in modbus test it doesn't crash, it just doesn't do anything and tells me there's a CRC error.

I already changed the spindle on/off and frequency to be in the same config. It works absolutely fine with the spindle dro button, m3, s*****, m5 all works as it should.


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All the more reason to clean up... Start with simple commands, on, off, forward, reverse and the rpm. Take the next steps and pimp it up when that is working.

[Mmpie]

The USB connector i have is USB to rs232 then rs232 to rs485. I've just ordered a proper pcie serial card for my PC, so if a shielded Ethernet cable and starting afresh with modbus doesn't work I will try that out. It was only £10 compared to the humongous price of a tcp/ip to rs485 converter, and if I don't need it I can return it or more likely save it for another day in case I ever need one. My VFD actually has an Ethernet port but I think that can only be used for editing parameters, not for modbus control. Will check.

I've made all sorts of changes to macros and settings and all sorts of things which I can't remember them all, so a fresh Mach3 install would be a last resort for me. Forgot to look at which version I'm running.

Will see how it goes.


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[extent]

You don't need to do a clean install to use, you do a clean install to confirm that something is wrong. If the clean install, with no customization, also crashes then you know that your changes aren't likely the cause. You restore your old configuration and keep on your way. If the clean install does work then you can break it down and compare the parts you've changed until you find the fault that's causing the crash.

If you've got problems with the ground wire again, given that it's also the same problem you saw with analog controls, I still give that a solid look. Perhaps the serial in the VFD is just more tolerant to large voltage swings from a bouncing ground reference than your usb adapter is. Crash just sounds like bad error handling on mach side if you're seeing crc errors in the test panel.

[Mmpie]

I see. Other than playing around with modbus I haven't changed anything in Mach for a little while, and modbus worked ok at first. So hopefully one of shielded cable, starting from fresh with modbus and possibly using a proper serial card will solve it.

The grounding on analogue wasn't so much an issue, on the old Chinese VFD digital and analogue must have shared a ground, I only had one ground output from my BOB and wasn't sure if jumping them would cause problems with ground loops or not.


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[Mmpie]

Ok so.

Shielded Ethernet cable didn't make any difference. It was one of those with double shielding and what an absolute pain that was to strip, pig tail and clamp without breaking those tiny braids!

I went one step further than a fresh Mach install and did it on a different PC too. Still got CRC error. So I installed the serial card in my dedicated PC and... voila! No error on spindle run/stop or frequency commands.

But... in modbus test inputs either timeout or give me CRC error, and after trying read the inputs, then writing spindle commands also gives CRC error until I turn off the spindle then back on again, then no error. Also I occasionally get receive timeout on spindle commands, and then it goes away again.

So I'm not really sure what's going on, must be something with the VFD.

Actually now I get receive error for everything all the time, but spindle controls still work. There is a problem on the inputs, now I know what to look for. Not a wiring issue so maybe a parameter in the VFD or something with the PC.


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[A_Camera]

Ok so.

Shielded Ethernet cable didn't make any difference. It was one of those with double shielding and what an absolute pain that was to strip, pig tail and clamp without breaking those tiny braids!

I went one step further than a fresh Mach install and did it on a different PC too. Still got CRC error. So I installed the serial card in my dedicated PC and... voila! No error on spindle run/stop or frequency commands.

But... in modbus test inputs either timeout or give me CRC error, and after trying read the inputs, then writing spindle commands also gives CRC error until I turn off the spindle then back on again, then no error. Also I occasionally get receive timeout on spindle commands, and then it goes away again.

So I'm not really sure what's going on, must be something with the VFD.

Actually now I get receive error for everything all the time, but spindle controls still work. There is a problem on the inputs, now I know what to look for. Not a wiring issue so maybe a parameter in the VFD or something with the PC.


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The Ethernet cables I am using are easy to strip, but perhaps that's because I am more used to that type of activity and have proper tools. Anyway, I don't think there is anything wrong with your VFD, the most likely source of error is your cabling. This is especially more likely since the new you have installed made it worse. I think you should check and confirm that you REALLY have wired as it is shown on page 436. Beware of the fact that your VFD has RS422 connection as well, so you need to convert the RS422 to RS485 at the VFD end before connecting anything to the PC. Also, I hope you have not connected any of the signals to GND, even if one of them has a negative sign, that is not GND.

Installing an RS232 card was a good idea because at least that excludes one error source, but it is still better to exclude RS232 all together and use only a USB dongle to convert USB to RS485.

[Mmpie]

The Ethernet cables I am using are easy to strip, but perhaps that's because I am more used to that type of activity and have proper tools. Anyway, I don't think there is anything wrong with your VFD, the most likely source of error is your cabling. This is especially more likely since the new you have installed made it worse. I think you should check and confirm that you REALLY have wired as it is shown on page 436. Beware of the fact that your VFD has RS422 connection as well, so you need to convert the RS422 to RS485 at the VFD end before connecting anything to the PC. Also, I hope you have not connected any of the signals to GND, even if one of them has a negative sign, that is not GND.

Installing an RS232 card was a good idea because at least that excludes one error source, but it is still better to exclude RS232 all together and use only a USB dongle to convert USB to RS485.

The wiring really is correct. I have changed it 4 or 5 times and also tried running four wires from the VFD to merge at the PC instead of jumping S+ to R+ and S- to R-.

I still get CRC error on the USB>485 on fresh install on separate PC but on my dedicated Mach PC with the new serial card it is just a receive timeout. My USB card also shipped with a RS422 adapter, can Mach3 use RS422? Now you mention it I should have thought about trying that, totally slipped my mind.


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[Dan911]

What about a RS232 to RS485 converter, IMO I think this is a better option than USB.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sintech-Ser...wAAOSw9idZ~PyX

[Mmpie]

What about a RS232 to RS485 converter, IMO I think this is a better option than USB.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sintech-Ser...wAAOSw9idZ~PyX

That's what I've got plugged in to the serial port now. Different terminals though, +/-, VCC and ground.


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[Dan911]

That's what I've got plugged in to the serial port now. Different terminals though, +/-, VCC and ground.


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[Mmpie]

I have this


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[A_Camera]

I have this


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Are you connecting it to a 5V power supply also? What about the specifications? Does your PC deliver the right voltage output on the RS232 side? What about CTS/RTS requirements? There are zero advatages of going to RS485 through RS232. That's stone age and just adds complexity.

[Dan911]

Based on my experience... I started with a USB adapter and had lockups and crashes, I switched to RS232 and problems went away like yours. This convinced me Rs232 was more noise immune than USB. Even though this is the case I still addressed my noise source(s) with shielded wires and proper grounding.

This is going a few years back and I also remember getting that received timeout in "Test Modbus" and made several attempts experimenting for possible cause and never did. Since everything worked as it should I caulked it up as another Mach3 bug and used without problems for 2 years until changing controllers.

Been using the same RS232-RS485 for several years and never connected 5volts to it.

Dan

[A_Camera]

Been using the same RS232-RS485 for several years and never connected 5volts to it.

It's an old trick to use RTS or DTR as power supply but in industry units and if isolated supply is necessary then that is not a good practice. Even your RS422 chip needs power, so it must be taken from the RS232 signals if you have not connected any external supplies. Never the less, he is having the issues not you, so it is a good idea that he checks if the external power supply would help or may be necessary to use. Also, not every PC serial port is capable of supplying power through the RS232 some are 3V levels and that is actually not according the the RS232 standards, it is the absolute minimum value of it and if his PC is one of these then he can get intermittent issues. For good quality RS232 communication you need high voltage levels, preferably +/-12V or more. The lower the voltage the more noise sensitive it is and +/-3V is the minimum border for RS232. RS232 is VERY noise sensitive because it is voltage level driven.

This is just one of the negative issues of RS232, that's why it is not widely used any more and in fact, even 30-40 years ago RS422 was preferred in noisy environment and where higher speed was necessary. I haven't used RS232 since more than 10 years and not missing it.

[Mmpie]

No I have not connected 5v to it. I don't have a 5v source short of cutting a USB cable in half and sending power to it from that.

I'm not receiving any data back from the drive whatsoever. It was working at first before I tried writing my brain but once I tried to actually use it and the crashes started the PC isn't getting any data back at all.

It still sends commands to the drive and the drive reacts without a hitch.

It doesn't make any sense to me as I haven't changed any settings but it's happening now on two PC's.

This is why I hate electrics, they defy logic


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[Mmpie]

Well, reset the drive back to default and reinstalled Mach3. Now I'm getting an incoming signal again, but really bad 'lag' on the connection. I have to rapidly click 'write' to get a command sent to the VFD as I constantly get receive timeout, you will see in the video below whilst trying to read output frequency how the connection is on and off.

I guess this is now down to timeout settings (currently 100ms in modbus config and 5ms default on the VFD)

Ok maybe you won't see on the video as it won't let me upload but it's basically always stuck on receive timeout status and then it will update once every 2 or 3 seconds.


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