Electrical question on Haunyang VFD 2.2kw

[mactec54]

Are these FVD sensitive to the hertz being provided-- i.e., Europe at 50 hertz and US at 60 hertz?

No the Hz of the countries power supply, has nothing to do with what you set in the VFD Drive Parameters, you set the Drives Hz frequency to suit the motor spec's being driven by the VFD Drive

[mactec54]

Wow. This is the most damning condemnation of Haunyang I have ever read. And from Mactec no less!
If the buyer (typically an inexperienced hobbyist) is lucky enough to run across some anecdotal internet posting then he may know enough to ignore the manual and use R-T only.

If he trusts the manual he may choose any two terminals, maybe R-S or S-T. I guess he has a 2/3 chance of choosing wrong. Unless he happens to stumble across Mactec to set him straight. Without reading some random forum posting he may trust the manual and need to have the drive repaired or "sent to the trash."

Huanyang owes mactec a great debt of gratitude for his single minded crusade to save Huanyang from itself.

I first post on these VFD Drives in November 2011, used to get lots of them for repair, most today when they fail are not worth repairing, as the cost of these VFD Drives is so low, repair cost plus shipping cost, you can buy a new one

Nothing has changed except, the drives are much better built, better component's Etc. than they where then, and most of the everyday failure's are not happening now, some of the main components that Mitsubishi use in there VFD Drives, Haunyang are using also

Is there a need to worry about how you wire the input to these VFD Drives, not really, if you can follow the manual, they say you can connect to any 2 phases, it is a choice you have, It is not only me that has said to use R and T connections, any of the good resellers also say to connect for single phase use R and T, from the hundreds of posts on the subject you can see for your self which has been the most reliable connection, it's up to the user they can do what ever they like, and if it works then they are up and running, nothing is written in stone as to what to use for your connection

This is the only VFD Drive manufacture that says, in there manual that any 2 phases can be connected, all other manufactures specify which 2 phases to connect for Single Phase connection

Most VFD Drive Manufactures, Use R and S for Single Phase Connection, as per there Manuals, the rest use R and T as per there Manuals But they do specify which 2 connections to use

The biggest problem with these and other VFD Drives, has been with users not setting the correct Parameters, this is what cause's the most Damage to the VFD drives or the Spindle Motor, Not very often does the wiring cause any major problems, only when you get over current under current Fault, then this is usually caused by a wiring problem, ( and may not be from the input connection choice ) damage has already happened in most cases, when you get this fault, some times the fault has saved the drive and the wiring can be corrected the user got lucky this time

[mactec54]

If the manufacturer added a third current sensor, would that eliminate the possibility of the end user picking the wrong 2 of 3 inputs that is the less reliable combination? How much would that cost the manufacturer to add? Penny wise and pound foolish not to? Tarnishing a reputation to save a nickel?

Yes it would, but would not eliminate bad wiring, which is usually what this sensor detects, this is not about saving a nickel, only ( 1 ) current sensor is all that is needed, so they already give you a choice by having ( 2 ), these VFD Drives can be brought for under $80 this is a reality check compare some prices of other VF Drives

[Dan911]

Soooo... to sum up the end result. It doesn't make a difference which connection like Al and manual posted/states and you aren't able to provide electronic proof that it does like you posted/stated.

[ger21]

If the buyer (typically an inexperienced hobbyist) is lucky enough to run across some anecdotal internet posting then he may know enough to ignore the manual and use R-T only.

I believe that many Ebay sellers will send you some setup info that specifies this. Mine did.

[mactec54]

Soooo... to sum up the end result. It doesn't make a difference which connection like Al and manual posted/states and you aren't able to provide electronic proof that it does like you posted/stated.

No that's not what it means, it's confusion at it's best, you can do as the manual states which is a gamble you take, sometimes they run just fine, connected as the manual says, any 2 phases connected for single phase connection, when they do give an over current Fault, it happens more often, when it is not connected to R and T Terminals, all I have ever said they have been more Reliable when connected to R and T

When you get an over current Fault this is what normally fails, Over current Faults destroy IBGT’s, which also cause input rectifiers to fail, Time to go buy a new VFD when this happens, it is your choice as to how you want to wire these VFD Drives

You want better reliability then you would wire R and T I'm not the only one that says to do this with these drive

I think I have wasted enough time on this subject, I hope everyone gets it

[Dan911]

No that's not what it means, it's confusion at it's best, you can do as the manual states which is a gamble you take, sometimes they run just fine, connected as the manual says, any 2 phases connected for single phase connection, when they do give an over current Fault, it happens more often, when it is not connected to R and T Terminals, all I have ever said they have been more Reliable when connected to R and T

When you get an over current Fault this is what normally fails, Over current Faults destroy IBGT’s, which also cause input rectifiers to fail, Time to go buy a new VFD when this happens, it is your choice as to how you want to wire these VFD Drives

You want better reliability then you would wire R and T I'm not the only one that says to do this with these drive

I think I have wasted enough time on this subject, I hope everyone gets it

What would be the reason for it to happen more often on R and T ??? Others dispute this.

Subscribed to this thread for the interesting facts, reply's like more reliable and your not the only 1 who recommends this is what's making it confusing and is just say so..

I have no doubt what you posted that overcurrent destroys IBGT’s, but if using R and T the cause and won't happen on R and S ???

[Al_The_Man]

I believe that many Ebay sellers will send you some setup info that specifies this. Mine did.

I suspect they got it from the same source I did, through the Hyria Factory rep.
They stated, Quote: "Any two of R,S,T is fine, we use R & T"
But could not qualify it with a reason.
Max.

[joe90023]

I believe that many Ebay sellers will send you some setup info that specifies this. Mine did.

Does this supplementary info point out to the user that they should disregard the hookup info in the outdated manual? Or is it assumed the user will realize they have received contradictory info and know to disregard the manual on their own?

It boggles the mind that Haunyang wouldn't simply update the manual. A little effort and expense at establishing credibility would yield big dividends in profitability. I guess there is never time to do things right but there is always time to do things twice.

[joe90023]

....Most VFD Drive Manufactures, Use R and S for Single Phase Connection, as per there Manuals, the rest use R and T as per there Manuals[/U] But they do specify which 2 connections to use....

Some of these other manufacturers only have two input terminals for their single phase drives making it impossible to have problems like this.

There is a car insurance commercial on TV now where the guy says "I didn't choose the wrong insurance policy, I chose the wrong insurance company"

[mactec54]

Does this supplementary info point out to the user that they should disregard the hookup info in the outdated manual? Or is it assumed the user will realize they have received contradictory info and know to disregard the manual on their own?

It boggles the mind that Haunyang wouldn't simply update the manual. A little effort and expense at establishing credibility would yield big dividends in profitability. I guess there is never time to do things right but there is always time to do things twice.

No that does not disregard what the manual says, they are just, pointing you the buyer in the direction to use those ( 2 ) Terminals for your single phase connection

[mactec54]

Some of these other manufacturers only have two input terminals for their single phase drives making it impossible to have problems like this.

You see that mostly on the low HP VFD Drives, only have the ( 2 ) Terminals, all these other VFD Drive are built for 3 Phase, it would not work to well if you had a 3Phase VFD with only ( 2 ) Terminals

[Al_The_Man]

Well the latest manuals they sent me from the factory says "3ph or 1ph input, for 1 phase connect to any two phases".
Al.

[mactec54]

What would be the reason for it to happen more often on R and T ??? Others dispute this.

Subscribed to this thread for the interesting facts, reply's like more reliable and your not the only 1 who recommends this is what's making it confusing and is just say so..

I have no doubt what you posted that overcurrent destroys IBGT’s, but if using R and T the cause and won't happen on R and S ???

There are ( 2 ) sensors on T input and only ( 1 ) sensor on S input

So when the sensors detect a problem they try to protect the VFD, if it is not connected how is it going to try and protect the Drive

I hope that satisfies your arrogance

[Al_The_Man]

What would be the reason for it to happen more often on R and T ??? Others dispute this.

Subscribed to this thread for the interesting facts, reply's like more reliable and your not the only 1 who recommends this is what's making it confusing and is just say so..

I have no doubt what you posted that overcurrent destroys IBGT’s, but if using R and T the cause and won't happen on R and S ???

I also find it very strange that the manuals would not reflect the fact there is a reason for not insisting that R&T is used, when there are important "sensors" being fitted to these inputs.
The resistance, and also the measured current between the R,S,& T on the one I have certainly does not reflect it, They show precisely the same for each combination.!
Al.

[Dan911]

There are ( 2 ) sensors on T input and only ( 1 ) sensor on S input

So when the sensors detect a problem they try to protect the VFD, if it is not connected how is it going to try and protect the Drive

I hope that satisfies your arrogance

Sorry if my questions seem arrogant, but yes I was skeptical of your post. My 220v Huanyang been wired to RS coming up to 3 years and used regularly without any problems. I have read before that RT should be used but we all know there's a lot of bad/false information that can be found on internet and why I was very interested in the facts of this thread.

Thanks for the explanation,
Dan

[ger21]

I just dug out the old email I got, and this is what it said:

Regarding the wire connection, please connect "R" and "T" (at the inverter) to the shingle phase power supply (actraully, connect "R" and "S" or "S" and "T" both are ok.)

[ger21]

It boggles the mind that Haunyang wouldn't simply update the manual.

I don't think anyone from Huanyang has said that the manual is wrong, have they?

A little effort and expense at establishing credibility would yield big dividends in profitability.

They already are the most credible chinese VFD's, buy a large margin imo. They're a known commodity, used by thousands of hobbyists. Probably 95% or more of the people buying chinese spindles are buying chinese VFD's. People looking for the cheapest price, or that don't know any better, buy whatever package they find. People with a little knowledge may try to find a genuine Huanyang, which are know to be decent VFD's.

If you want excellent support, and an excellent 300 page manual, you can simple spend $350 or more, which is what the other 5% do.

[Al_The_Man]

They already are the most credible chinese VFD's, buy a large margin imo. They're a known commodity, used by thousands of hobbyists. .
.

I do not find it credible, when the information they dispel is contradictory, there are other Chinese VFD manuf, that are far more credible and not only offer professional manuals, will answer technical queries with credibility.
All most want, including me, is a definitive answer that makes sense and is consistent. If the Factory support cannot answer it with conviction, where is anyone to turn? Anecdotal evidence on the WWW? !!
Al.
.

[mactec54]

Sorry if my questions seem arrogant, but yes I was skeptical of your post. My 220v Huanyang been wired to RS coming up to 3 years and used regularly without any problems. I have read before that RT should be used but we all know there's a lot of bad/false information that can be found on internet and why I was very interested in the facts of this thread.

Thanks for the explanation,
Dan

R and S has worked for many as I have said this before also, this connection is almost the industry standard, so for you, I would not change it, R and S still has a Current sensor connected so if there was a fault you should be ok

There have been different models that have had different problems, this is not an easy thing to say what works for one may not work well for someone else

If a Fault is going to happen, it is normally on a new install at startup, there are some of these VFD Drives that I know of, have been in service for more than 5 years and still going strong

Something else that can kill these VFDs is when the spindle is running at 24,000 RPM and you hit the E-Stop, depending on how your E-Stop has been configured this can do damage to the VFD also, the IGBTs are smoked, no sensors can prevent this from happening

Why does this happen, most of these VFD Drives do not have a dump ( Braking Resistor ) built in like more expensive VFD Drives have, they also don't have an external connection that works for a Braking Resistor, they are available, so when you buy one of these VFD Drives you have to ask for, one with a Braking Resistor