Reply with Quote*Bump*
Doesn't anybody have some experience setting up one of these Chinese VFDs in Mach3?
I really need some help before I start trying things I'm not sure about, and fry my friend's spindle!
Would a big "pretty please" help?... PRETTY PLEASE?
Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
Hello everybody!
My buddy got a chinese CNC router and I'm trying to get it working with Mach3. The machine came with a handheld pendant control which was extremely difficult to use, so we decided to reconfigure the machine to be controlled through a PC running Mach3. I have built a few Mach3 controlled mills before, so I didn't think I would have any issues. But none of those machines had a VFD controlled spindle. I have all the axis drives, home switches, e-stop, charge pump, etc. working correctly. I just haven't been able to figure out how to wire the VFD to the BOB so that Mach3 can control the spindle start/stop and speed. The spindle and VFD work, and I can manually operate the spindle from the VFD's front panel with setting F0.0 set to 3 (panel control select). Note that the original break-out board and handheld control were able to fully operate the spindle. But I swapped out the original BOB because it used a SCSI-2 type connection to connect to the control, and didn't seem to be compatible with a PC parallel port. Without any documentation available for that BOB (I searched for hours), I decided it would be easier to use a BOB with a standard DB-25 interface.
Here's the equipment:
Jcut 6090 CNC router
Sunfar E-300-2S0015 VFD with correct matching spindle motor
Unbranded chinese "5-axis breakout board"
The image of the breakout board is the only available documentation for it.
Here is a link to the VFD manual
When I connect the VFD's AI and CM terminals to the BOB's 0-10v "speed control output" (+) and (-) terminals respectively (and VFD setting F0.0 set to 1 for 0-10v control), the spindle constantly runs at 11000 RPM and I have no control of it in Mach3. I'm not sure if there are other settings I need to change, but since the VFD was already setup for the spindle motor, I am pretty sure that setting F0.0 (it sets the control method) is the only one that is relevant. The original BOB needed F0.0 to be set to 0 which selects digital input as the control method, but that won't work with this new configuration.
Also, I am not sure how to configure the spindle properly in Mach3. The ports and pins outputs screen has fields for step and direction pin numbers, but the "speed control output" terminals on the BOB aren't associated with any parallel port pins from what I can tell.
Thanks for taking the time to help me figure this thing out!
Similar Threads:
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
*Bump*
Doesn't anybody have some experience setting up one of these Chinese VFDs in Mach3?
I really need some help before I start trying things I'm not sure about, and fry my friend's spindle!
Would a big "pretty please" help?... PRETTY PLEASE?
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
In Mach3, go to Ports and Pins.
Go to Motor Outputs, and set the spindle step pin# to 1, and set the port pin to whatever port you are using (probably 1). You can leave the dir pin at 0.
Go to the Output Signals tab, and set Output #1 to pin 17.
Go to the Spindle Setup tab.
Uncheck "Disable Spindle Relays", and set Clockwise (M3) To Output #1.
Check Use Spindle Motor Control, and PWM Control. Uncheck Step.Dir Motor.
Set Minimum PWM to 30%
When you click the spindle start button, you should here the relay on the breakout board click.
At the VFD, connect the breakout board speed control + to AI, and speed control - to CM.
Connect the Spindle Switch connections on the breakout board to FWD and CM.
I've never used one of those VFD's, but I think that these are the settings you need:
F0.0 = 1
F0.1=400
F0.2 = 1
F0.3 = 100
F0.4 = 400
F0.12=400
F0.13 = 220
F1.2 = 100
F1.3=400
Gerry
UCCNC 2017 Screenset
[URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]
Mach3 2010 Screenset
[URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]
JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
[URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]
(Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
Yessss!
Thank you, ger21!
I didn't use the exact settings you suggested, but you got me to where I was able to figure it out. My spindle now works from Mach3 and I can control the RPM.
I don't have time at the moment, but I will post my settings when I get a chance.
I have another issue now that the spindle works (and its a minor problem that I can live with), but this is not the right forum: If the spindle is not running, when I jog any of the XYZ axes Mach3 shows the position moving, but the axes don't move. I think its an issue with the pulse timing, but like I said, if I can't figure it out, I will ask in the right forum.
CNCzone has never let me down! You guys rock.
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
Hello ceramic man,
been reading your post on the e300 sunfar vfd, and can't help but notice you haven't got back with your settings.
is there any chance you can remember the settings and post them as I am in the same boat as you and starting to pull my hair out
will a PRETTY PLEASE help!!!
cheers
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
Lol, a "pretty please" always helps.
Yeah, I totally forgot to post my settings. I need to go to my buddy's house where the machine is and write down the settings I used. I will try to do that today, if my friend is home. Seriously, now that I know somebody needs that info, I will get it ASAP and post.
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
Ok sh1224, I got those settings for you. For anybody that uses this info, these settings are for the following setup:
Sunfar E-300-2S0015 inverter with 1.5kw chinese spindle motor, chinese "5-axis breakout board", and Mach 3 control. I don't remember which inverter settings are relevant, so I just listed all the settings up to F3.0. I know I didn't change any settings past the F2.X's
Inverter settings:
F0.0 = 1
F0.1 = 0
F0.2 = 1001
F0.3 = 0
F0.4 = 400
F0.5 = 5.0
F0.6 = 5.0
F0.7 = 0
F0.8 = 8.0
F0.9 = 0
F0.10 = 0
F0.11 = 0
F0.12 = 400
F0.13 = 220
F0.14 = 10.0
F0.15 = 10.0
F1.0 = 0
F1.1 = 10
F1.2 = 0
F1.3 = 400
F1.4 = 0
F1.5 = 0.0
F1.6 = 10.0
F1.7 = 1
F1.8 = 2
F1.9 = 3
F1.10 = 0000
F1.11 = 0
F1.12 = 8
F1.13 = 5.0
F1.14 = 10.0
F1.15 = 2.0
F1.16 = 110
F1.17 = 2.0
F2.0 = 1.0
F2.1 = 0.0
F2.2 = 0
F2.3 = 3.0
F2.4 = 0.0
F2.5 = 10
F2.6 = 10.0
F2.7 = 10.0
F2.8 = 170
F2.9 = 100
F2.10 = 370
Inverter wiring connections:
L1: 220v AC L1
L2: 220v AC L2
U: spindle motor
V: spindle motor
W: spindle motor It does not matter how U, V, and W are connected. If the spindle runs backward, just swap any 2 wires around.
CM: Common ground to 0-10v gnd on BOB, and to relay ground (common ground for all pins) on BOB
FV: Pin 17 on BOB (pin 17 is the relay output. Make sure the P17 jumper is installed on the BOB)
AI: +0-10v output terminal on BOB
Mach 3 settings:
Ports and Pins
Motor outputs
Spindle
-check enable, step low active, and dir low active
-step pin 1
-dir pin 0
-step port 1
-dir port 0
Output Signals
output #1
-check enable and active low
-port 1
-pin 17
Spindle setup
-UNcheck "disable spindle relays"
-Clockwise M3 output #1
-Counterclockwise M4 output #2
-check "use spindle motor output"
-check "PWM control"
-PWM base freq. = 35
-min PWM = 5
Motor tuning
Spindle
-steps per = 1
-velocity = 114660
-acceleration = 16905
Spindle pulleys
-pulley #1
-min = -4500
-max = 25000
-ratio = 1
I don't know if this is the correct way to have everything set, but it works for me. I had to play around with the spindle pulley min/max values to get the spindle to run at the approximate correct RPM. It won't necessarily run at the exact RPM set by your S command, but it will be reasonably close (within about 5%)
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
The correct setting are below, now some Parameters may not set to these numbers, some of the Parameters Ceramic Man is using are incorrect and he needs to correct them or he could do some damage to the SpindleOriginally Posted by sh1224
Mactec54
Sunfar300/ 550 1.5Kw / 2.2KwWater Cooled Parameters
F0.00=3 (Key Pad Potentiometer Control ) ( F0.00=1 0-10v Remote control )
F0.01=400
F0.02=0 (Run/Stop Key Pad Control ) (F0.02=1 for Remote Terminal control )
F0.03= 100
F0.04=400 ( Max Motor Frequency )
F0.05=5 To 12 ( Adjustable Acceleration )
F0.06=5 To 12 ( Adjustable Deceleration )
F0.07=1 ( S-Curve for Acceleration and Deceleration )
F0.12=400 ( Motor Rated Frequency )
F0.13=220 ( Motor Rated Volts )
F1.03=100
F1.04=400
F2.00=50
F2.01=10
F2.07= 100% ( VFD Max Amps Match Spindle Max Amps Adjust Percentage to Sute)
( If VFD Amps are More Than the Spindle Then the Percentage Must Be Adjusted To Sute )
F2.19=1 ( Number of Pole Pairs )
F3.13=150%
Mactec54
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
I see a problem with the parameters mactec54 listed, which would lead me to doubt that he has experience with this inverter. Quickly looking over the values that mactec54 listed, I noticed setting F0.2 = 0. This is not possible because parameter F0.2 MUST be 4 digits, even if they are all zeroes. It is really 4 settings in 1 with each of the 4 digits representing a particular function setting. The default value for F0.2 is 1000. Click on the link in my first post for the Sunfar E-300 manual and scroll down to the parameter settings chapter and see for yourself.
There is another brand of VFD sold by Automation Technologies that is very similar to the Sunfar VFD, but it is not the same. That VFD's manufacturer uses the prefix "PD" instead of "F" for each parameter. I think that might be where Mactec54 got those settings from, but not sure.
I didn't change any of the inverter settings pertaining to the way the inverter drives the spindle motor. I know I listed them in my previous post, but I only changed parameters having to do with how Mach3 and the breakout board talk to the VFD. With that said, there should be no reason that my settings would damage the spindle motor. If that was the case, the spindle would have fried a long time ago since the machine I was working on had already been in service for many years without a problem with those settings. All I did was ditch the handheld pendant control for a Mach3 based PC control. That necessitated using a different control method with the VFD and thus changing some of the VFDs settings. Any and all settings related to how the VFD drives the spindle motor were set by the machine manufacturer, Jcut. I have to assume that an OEM knows how to configure the settings for the machines they make, better than myself.
My logic is undeniable.
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
Your thoughts are your own and not correct
I get all my settings from the VFDs that we repair, Mach3 is easy to setup for anyone who knows how to read, plus there is lots of post covering the same set up here on the Zone
If you are looking at the manual when you are setting the parameters, you would see the F0.02 or F0.2 Depending on what model VFD is by default 1000 so the settings would be either a 0 or a 1, if you don't change the settings, you listed your VFD or the Spindle will be damaged, we see it every day on here where someone has smoked a Spindle because of incorrect Parameter settings
But I guess for those that can't figure this F0.02 or F0.2 out from the manual I will update my Parameter settings for this VFD Here is a snip from the manual that show either a 0 or a 1
Mactec54
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
Hello Ceramic Man....... you are the MAN in my books, the settings were spot on for the vfd. Hade to make slight adjustments in Mach 3 but other than that it' starts it stops and I can adjust the speed through Mach3
When I compared my numbers to your I was only out on a few but that's all it needed. I am as happy as a pig in sh#t
i still have a few issues to work out but I am as close as I have ever been and I have been trying for over twelve months..... I guess I'm not real smart as I'm only new to this technolidgy as in my day if you wanted to make something move you had to push it.
thank you so much for your time and energy
if you ever get to Tasmania (you might have to look that up) I owe you a beer or twc
Cheers
SH1224
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
Hi mactec54, I don't want to start a ***** fight here but in your list you show a F2.19 well when I go from F2.10 to the next F# it jumps straight into theF3.0 set of parameters.....
just wondering what manual you have because it is not the same as the one I have been trying to read from.
hope this helps somehow!
Cheers
SH1224
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
Hello again, I just had a look through the manual that ceramic man refers to... and it is different again to the one I have been using???
the main thing that stuck out to me was that it didn't have the model of VFD that runs the 2.2kw spindle...
Now if I was really clever I could give you a link to the one I am using..... but alas I'm still just getting used to using a mobile phone to make a phone call so that means I'm about five years away from being that clever. I do remember I just googled it and kept looking until I found the one with my model spindle.
if I wasn't confused before I am now!
Cheers again
SH1224
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
I have about 180 different VFD Drive manuals and Parameter settings, different models have some changes, but the main thing is to set the important Parameters that is for your spindle, then you move to how you want to control the spindle through the VFD, it's a very simple process, if you read there manual, which is one of the better manuals
What model VFD do you have what I listed can be for the E300 or the E550, and if you read what I said that some of the Parameters won't set in both of the Drives, but the main Parameters that need to be set, both models use the same settings
There are only I think about ( 2 ) that I posted that don't work for both of these VFD Drive models , and if it is not there then it's one of the Parameters that you can't set, the F2.19 is for the number of Poles, the motor has, this is a setting for the E550 Drive
I guess I will have to separate the two different drive models, these Parameters have been used for a few years now, and have never been a problem
Ceramic man did not set those settings as he stated, they are how they where when he got the machine, which are the VFD's default settings, and there are some that need to be changed for these spindles, or you won't be so happy when you see the magic smoke, there are some important Parameters that are not set in what he posted, and they need to be set
Mactec54
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
This is not a competition for attention, mactec54. We are supposed to be working together on solving problems since we are all part of the same online community.
I think the discrepancy here is probably due to how Chinese manufacturers often revise their products, but fail to update their manuals to reflect those revisions. Not only that, but their products often lack a means for identifying product versions. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten a chinese product that is in some way different than what is depicted in the manual that came with it.
I do know that the manual I provided the link to is the correct one for my friend's inverter. He has the hardcopy manual that came with the inverter, and it is the same.
You are both right and wrong about the settings I used. Yes, most of the parameters were set before I started messing with the machine. Yes, some of them are still set to the default values. But many of the parameters were changed from their defaults by Jcut. If a parameter didn't need to be changed, I left it as it was.
If you think the settings I'm using will fry the spindle motor, I would like to know which ones and why.
Not only did those settings not fry the spindle during the machine's 5+ years in service with the original control, they have not fried the spindle in the 22 hrs of runtime the spindle has seen since I completed the control change.
Like I said before, I have to assume the OEM knows better how to setup their machines than myself, but it IS chinese. There are other aspects of the machine that I know could be configured better. For instance, Jcut wires the E-stop inline with the power switch so that hitting E-stop cuts the power from the entire machine. I know that is the wrong way, and I changed it to operate the right way. But to me, it indicates that Jcut doesn't necessarily have everything set as it should be, and I shouldn't necessarily trust that they have things right anywhere on the machine.
But again, please let me know where you think Jcut is wrong in the parameters.
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
No the OEM ( if you could call them that ) are completely unreliable as to how wiring and the VFD 's are set up, you most likely know more about your machine than the person in China who assembled it
I have been helping some of the Chinese manufactures setup there machines, for the last 6 years, Most of the machines are all made in one factory, all very much the same, some are slightly different so they don't all look the same, the main manufacturer in China, I still work for when they need it, the others try to follow, note I said follow but they never get all the details correct, most machines ship out of China all over the world, 90% are never run or tested in any way, so if anyone gets a machine and it runs out of the box they got lucky, so never rely on anything being set correct
First study your Spindle, get all the spec's you can, most common are water cooled 220v 400hz 1.5Kw 7 amps and 2.2Kw 9 amps and both have the same minimum RPM of 100Hz, so with these numbers you know what Parameters need to be set in the VFD Drive, anything else and you will be blowing smoke
Air cooled Spindles of the same spec's need a higher minimum setting most are around 200Hz minimum
You have got away with you settings because you run at the higher spindle speeds, your basic setting are correct, one of the most important is the minimum Hz setting yours is at ( 0 ) which needs to have a minimum of 100, if you where to run your spindle at low RPM, below the minimum, they will over heat, without this protection, depending on how slow it is running as to how long before you will see the smoke, normal time it takes is around 5 to 30 seconds
Your VFD max amps closely matches your spindle, so your motor currant setting are not being affected, but not everyone has this matching so is a Parameter that has to be set, your is not correct but close enough
Mactec54
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
Hi, The spindle is Chinese as you probably guessed, it is a water cooled GDZ-80-2.2B, dia= 80 x 213, 220V, 2.2KW, 8A, 400Hz, 24000rpm,
the VFD is a Sunfar E300 - 2S0022L, 1ph 220V, 3.8KVA, 10A.
from the settings you guys have given me is there any that may need changing to protect the spindle
cheers
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
Your spindle is not 8 amps, a simple calculation will tell you it is 10 amps, they all have the same spec's, no matter what name is etched on them, you could lower the current protection F2.9 it is set at 100% and F3.13 change to 150%, if you get any start up tripping then increase F3.13 until it stops
Make sure these are set, they are not set in Ceramic Man list
F0.3=100
F1.2=100
You could also set the Torque Boost F0.11=6 which is the Default setting and a good starting point, this is at ( 0 ) in the other list
Mactec54
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
I using xhc control board, and E300 3kw vfd 2.2kwspindle
This sunfar E300 bad ass, I can make it spin m3= Fwd and m4= Rev, quick stop. I'm trying to figure out how to enable RPM maybe I need hall sensor.
What size is your spindle 1.5kw 2.2kw ? ACor DC spindle?
Last edited by Nleo22; 08-30-2017 at 07:51 PM.
Re: Mach3, Sunfar VFD, and Chinese 5-axis BOB
HelloNleo22
sounds like you have had more success than I have with being able to run m4 as well as m3, but then again I havent tried it yet.
As for the RPM being enabled, do you mean being able to control the speed of the spindle or are you referring to the RPM on the Mach3 screen under the spindle start button.
Also if it is me you are asking what size spindle I am running it is written below in entry No17.
If you want to control your speed through Mach3 read the whole thread below and you will see how mactec54 and ceramic man have helped me get to where I can actually cut chips as they say. They have been so helpful and knowledgeable that I have jumped ahead in leaps and bounds.
i am still working through minor issues as in how to get my breakout board to start my water cooler as well as the spindle, and how to design a spoil board that can do much more than just spoil.......lol!
hope I helped in some small way
cheers sh1224
