Huanyang 1.5 watercooled spindle not spinning up

[Goosey]

I just finished peck drilling 17 holes with a #40 drill and swapped to .125 end mill to do some slots. The peck drilling was the slowest rpm I've ever used my spindle at for an extended time but since it's water cooled I wasn't concerned. It didn't get hot and the drill bit only got warm.
When I started to manually raise the spindle rpm, it sounded like it was spinning up then cut off. I reset, and tried again, this time watching the collet. The shaft never turned yet the motor sounded like it was beginning to spin up. Shut off again. The shaft spins freely by hand and still feels like it is connected to the motor.
Does the Huanyang 1.5kw water cooled spindle have a coupled shaft between motor and arbor with a shear pin? I don't mind pulling the motor apart but thought I'd see if anyone else has had similar problems before I try it.

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[ger21]

Does the Huanyang 1.5kw water cooled spindle have a coupled shaft between motor and arbor with a shear pin?

There is no separate motor. The spindle shaft runs all the way through.

[Goosey]

I'd like to know how it can "sound" like it's spinning up yet the shaft isn't turning.

[mactec54]

I'd like to know how it can "sound" like it's spinning up yet the shaft isn't turning.

How slow where you running it the minimum speed is 6,000 RPM, it could well be damaged from running it with the wrong Parameters set

What you are hearing is the high frequency noise, you may have lost a phase, did you try to spin the spindle when you pressed start, if it starts up you may have a wiring problem, or some damage

As Gerry posted, it is a one piece spindle shaft and Rotor

[Goosey]

I did two sets of 17 holes without any problem. My readout is 0-400 hz and thinking my spindle runs at 16000 max, I set it to ~1100 or 25hz...raised it to 30 hz to get rid of friction squeak. Any idea if the fault would be internal electronics that might be fixed? Guess I can check the windings with my meter but that darned connector is a pain to remove, lol.
I went looking for a replacement and all those like mine say 24,000 rpm max.
Based on my best guess about the spindle (I can't read Ch-english well) and VFD drive, I operated on the assumption that the motors 3 phases were only operated by two phases through the VFD at 220 volts so I dropped a third off the max rpm since I was missing the third input phase but I now believe I only lost power, not rpm because of the missing phase. That would put me above the rpm i calculated but below the safe rpm you mentioned.
Now I know why I've been hesitant so long to drop down to that low of a frequency (way back when i did my original thinking on the subject), despite the heat dissipation ability of water cooling. Sighhhh!
Sure wish it was only an electronic component that popped, but guess I'll fork over another 100 bucks plus for another spindle now.

[Dan911]

For the typical China spindle at 400hz the spindle should be running at 24,000rpm. Its obvious you had the wrong parameters set in VFD and unfortunately it looks like you fried your spindle.

[mactec54]

I did two sets of 17 holes without any problem. My readout is 0-400 hz and thinking my spindle runs at 16000 max, I set it to ~1100 or 25hz...raised it to 30 hz to get rid of friction squeak. Any idea if the fault would be internal electronics that might be fixed? Guess I can check the windings with my meter but that darned connector is a pain to remove, lol.
I went looking for a replacement and all those like mine say 24,000 rpm max.
Based on my best guess about the spindle (I can't read Ch-english well) and VFD drive, I operated on the assumption that the motors 3 phases were only operated by two phases through the VFD at 220 volts so I dropped a third off the max rpm since I was missing the third input phase but I now believe I only lost power, not rpm because of the missing phase. That would put me above the rpm i calculated but below the safe rpm you mentioned.
Now I know why I've been hesitant so long to drop down to that low of a frequency (way back when i did my original thinking on the subject), despite the heat dissipation ability of water cooling. Sighhhh!
Sure wish it was only an electronic component that popped, but guess I'll fork over another 100 bucks plus for another spindle now.

I'm surprised it would even start up with ( 1 ) phase wire missing, if the spindle did not smoke, then the damage most likely is the VFD will need replacing, or repaired which can be done sometimes if the Boards are not damaged

Your spindle is 3 Phase and must have all 3 wires and Ground connected, the VFD output is 3 Phase, the input can be single Phase or 3 Phase for most VFD Drive, there is something new every day, someone that tries something different, only to end up costing a new spindle or VFD drive and sometimes both

Even though they list some of these Spindles as 0-24,000 RPM, they are 6,000 to 24,000 RPM any thing else and you usually get damage,

Your Parameter where not set correct, this in normally instant failure, but you got lucky and where able to run for a short time

[Goosey]

I've had my machine up and running for a year, just never operated it at that low rpm. I think I'll err on the high side from now on. It would have helped if I didn't have to convert from hz to rpm every time I change cutters 'cause at least one out of 30 times, I'll get the math wrong for some reason.
If only I could read Ch-English, I think there's a way to get the VFD to register rpm instead of hz. <G>

[mactec54]

I've had my machine up and running for a year, just never operated it at that low rpm. I think I'll err on the high side from now on. It would have helped if I didn't have to convert from hz to rpm every time I change cutters 'cause at least one out of 30 times, I'll get the math wrong for some reason.
If only I could read Ch-English, I think there's a way to get the VFD to register rpm instead of hz. <G>

What was happening with your motor is called Single Phasing, if the load is light less then 1/3rd of the spindle / motor rated load, then it will run, ( Not very well ) Higher than 1/3rd of rated load, the Spindle / motor will continue to operate, but will draw high current more than it's rated value. The motor temperature will start increasing, and damage the 2 windings

You would not have to worry about the math, if the Parameters where set correct, if they had been set correct the spindle would not run below the 120Hz setting, ( 100Hz in the minimum setting for these spindles, ) 120Hz is a safer option, so no matter what you tried to use, it would not be able to run below the minimum setting

So you got more than lucky with the wiring and Parameters not being correct, most that do this the VFD or Spindle is smoked in the first 5 minutes of trying to run like this

What VFD did you have most of the common Chinese VFD Drives have good English manuals, for RPM reading it is just a button push to change what mod the VFD Drive is in to see amps / Hz / RPM

[Goosey]

Started troubleshooting so stuck my head between the VFD and spindle to make sure which one was making spinup sound. Believe it or not, it went ahead and ran so I scooted the HZ back up into the safe zone. Sometimes it still fails to start and since one post seemed to indicate it could actually run on one phase, I will go ahead and test resistance on the phases.
It's been so long since I first wired it up, I forget if there was an unconnected phase. If so, and one of the present phases is shot, I'll try to just swap to the unused one.
I did a test cut after it spun up. I can't tell any difference from before the problems.
The manual would be more useful if I had previous experience with VFD's. I just need to do some massive studying of other VFD's, then it should make more sense. Although I've only been using it about a year, I bought it 3+ years ago. I noticed on ebay that there are vastly more spindle options than back when I bought mine.

[Goosey]

mactec54
" What was happening with your motor is called Single Phasing"

Is that an event associated with the VFD or from damage to the motor? Or something else?

Also, since I'd thought (erroniously apparently) that max rpm was 16000, I've been way off the 24k standard, so there might actually be a setting via push button that corresponds to rpm that will fit the hz to rpm calculation. I'll be exploring that next, doncha know. Ty kindly for that awakening.

[mactec54]

Started troubleshooting so stuck my head between the VFD and spindle to make sure which one was making spinup sound. Believe it or not, it went ahead and ran so I scooted the HZ back up into the safe zone. Sometimes it still fails to start and since one post seemed to indicate it could actually run on one phase, I will go ahead and test resistance on the phases.
It's been so long since I first wired it up, I forget if there was an unconnected phase. If so, and one of the present phases is shot, I'll try to just swap to the unused one.
I did a test cut after it spun up. I can't tell any difference from before the problems.
The manual would be more useful if I had previous experience with VFD's. I just need to do some massive studying of other VFD's, then it should make more sense. Although I've only been using it about a year, I bought it 3+ years ago. I noticed on ebay that there are vastly more spindle options than back when I bought mine.

There is no way this spindle motor will run on ( 1 ) Phase, they will run on 2 Phases not very well and not much power to do anything with, but for correct running you have to have all 3 Phases connected

There is not much to study, there is plenty of threads on here that will give you all the information you need, it's always good to know what you have though

What is the name and model of your VFD ???? most likely I have all the Parameters that need to be set

You have to also make sure all 3Phases to the spindle are connected Pin 1 =U Pin 2=V Pin3=W and Pin 4=Ground

[mactec54]

mactec54
" What was happening with your motor is called Single Phasing"

Is that an event associated with the VFD or from damage to the motor? Or something else?

Also, since I'd thought (erroniously apparently) that max rpm was 16000, I've been way off the 24k standard, so there might actually be a setting via push button that corresponds to rpm that will fit the hz to rpm calculation. I'll be exploring that next, doncha know. Ty kindly for that awakening.

Your spindle may be only 16,000 RPM some are, what are the spec's on the Spindle Name Plate, you have to take/post a photo or post what the spec's are

[Goosey]

Thought I'd update this thread in case others encounter similar problems.
I've discovered that by pre-spinning the spindle before turning it on, it spins up and runs fine. I can even make it run in reverse, lol. If it's like other motors I've had, it might have a starting capacitor that's shot. Since it works as good as before, once it's running, I've not bothered to disassemble it and check if it has a cap.
However, since a function of the VFD is to choose direction, that part of my drive might be kaputz and the fault isn't the spindle.
As for the name plate...there are no identifying numbers or even a name plate. I used a process of elimination when wiring it up and just guessed which model I have, from various data in the users manual.

[mactec54]

Thought I'd update this thread in case others encounter similar problems.
I've discovered that by pre-spinning the spindle before turning it on, it spins up and runs fine. I can even make it run in reverse, lol. If it's like other motors I've had, it might have a starting capacitor that's shot. Since it works as good as before, once it's running, I've not bothered to disassemble it and check if it has a cap.
However, since a function of the VFD is to choose direction, that part of my drive might be kaputz and the fault isn't the spindle.
As for the name plate...there are no identifying numbers or even a name plate. I used a process of elimination when wiring it up and just guessed which model I have, from various data in the users manual.

You have a wiring problem if you have to spin the motor to start it, or it is damaged, it is a 3ph motor it does not have caps to help it start

[Goosey]

That explaination makes the most sense, yes, mactec.
When I researched that spindle-matching inverter combo before I bought it, I came to understand it was designed to run off 360v 3phase (as in European line voltage) and was rated at 2.2kw. However on the 220v available here, it drops down to 1.5 hp. Some day I plan to borrow a car mech's tach to check it's rpm but I'm fairly certain it's 16k rpm max.
Troubleshooting the VFD is more time than I want to spend coming up to speed on it's electronics. I spent a week designing and building the parport interface, before starting the mechanical build of my axis's (now that I can etch my own circuit board, it'd take an hour counting doing the blueprint and g-code conversion). If the VFD completely fails or if I add a tool changer, I'll replace it, otherwise, repairing it is postponed until I'm retired <GRIN>. For the price of a twist of finger and thumb, it works fine, so I'm happy.

[mactec54]

That explaination makes the most sense, yes, mactec.
When I researched that spindle-matching inverter combo before I bought it, I came to understand it was designed to run off 360v 3phase (as in European line voltage) and was rated at 2.2kw. However on the 220v available here, it drops down to 1.5 hp. Some day I plan to borrow a car mech's tach to check it's rpm but I'm fairly certain it's 16k rpm max.
Troubleshooting the VFD is more time than I want to spend coming up to speed on it's electronics. I spent a week designing and building the parport interface, before starting the mechanical build of my axis's (now that I can etch my own circuit board, it'd take an hour counting doing the blueprint and g-code conversion). If the VFD completely fails or if I add a tool changer, I'll replace it, otherwise, repairing it is postponed until I'm retired <GRIN>. For the price of a twist of finger and thumb, it works fine, so I'm happy.

So you brought the wrong VFD if it is for 360v power supply, that will perform very poorly on 240v, the USA and all of NA is 240v for single phase, some areas are lower but not by much