Driving coolant pump with VFD


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    Member revwarguy's Avatar
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    Default Driving coolant pump with VFD

    I just got a VFD (the Huanyang HY01D511B which is the 1.5KW 110VAC one) and looking at the manual it appears there are several ways to control an external device, like the coolant pump which I would think you would always want on if the spindle is moving.

    One way is with the control outputs (FA, FB, FC) to route the power directly, or with a lower voltage output like DRV-DCM to drive a relay.

    Anybody gotten the first approach to work? Anyone doing the latter? If so, how was it wired and what relay, etc. used?

    I think with the first method, if you have a 220VAC unit, it switches 220 on and off, right?

    TIA,

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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    First, I would never want to run power through control outputs, just low voltage to drive a relay. Second, there are many times you don't want coolant running with the spindle. Some materials can't get wet, other times using double back tape or whatnot doing thin parts.



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    Member revwarguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    Perhaps I misspoke. By coolant, I meant the heat exchanger running inside the jacket of the spindle, not something bathing the material being machined. Under what circumstances wouldn't you want that flowing if the spindle is turning?

    Also, I am already running power to the VFD. It has the ability to switch some of that power on and off and present that as an output. The pump I am using is not very powerful, well under the rating of the VFD output, so help me understand that objection, please? I am guessing they added this feature for a reason.

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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    There are two ways to do it, the FA/FB are N.O./N.C contact with FC being common and will switch 3a @ 250v, so any AC/DC relay would work with the right supply/coil voltage.
    The other is to apply a function to the transistor outputs DRV UPF, these are open collector 24vdc max at 100ma so this could also be a 24vdc relay coil.
    PD050/051/052.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    Your already using the drive output rating for the spindle. I don't have that schematic for that drive here, but typically the extra outputs just go through a lower rated SSR or even just a few hundred millamp signal line. And cooling and coolant are different. Coolant is usually for cutting, cooling pump would be correct. Your always safe switching a low voltage relay through the drive control, adding higher currents through the control board can get expensive. Not worth the risk for a ten dollar relay.



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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    Also if you are using Mach etc and not using the Modbus connection, you most likely have a relay output for the M3/M4? you could use a small SSR on the same contact as the VFD start.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    Thanks, Al.

    PD050/051/052.
    Al.



    The manual says PD052 is for the FA, FB, FC terminals, so to use those, I guess I would set it to 1.

    The manual says PD050 and PD051 are for Y1 and Y2 Outputs. What are Y1 and Y2, and more importantly, where did you find any info about them?

    How do you have yours wired? You letting Mach3 trigger it?

    Last edited by revwarguy; 04-12-2015 at 10:14 AM. Reason: spelling
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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    All it says is 220vac 2.2Kw.
    It came with a manual but it is not all that explicit, just how to set the various parameters for the I/O.
    Set to a 1 should work for the pump.
    Huanyang manuals are renown for their poor instructions.
    I am not actually using it in Mach and am using the at-frequency signal to provide a M3/M4 complete signal on the systems I use.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    it sounds wise, I just questioning if it worth..
    I using also water cooled spindle, and a little aquarium pump permanently runs..
    when I turn on power in shop its run..

    aquarium pumps anyway designed to run always..

    its a 20 dollar little pump..
    useto be every month I check or so to blowing trough with air the waterways, make sure don't clogged..
    but check everyday for flowing..



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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by revwarguy View Post
    The manual says PD050 and PD051 are for Y1 and Y2 Outputs. What are Y1 and Y2, and more importantly, where did you find any info about them?
    Y1=PD50 is a input setting, this is for Frequency Up setting, ( to Increase the Frequency )

    Y2=PD51 is a input setting,for Frequency Down setting, ( to Decrease the Frequency )


    Your FB & FC Parameter PD052=01 will work for you, make sure you are not above 2.4A with your pump,you have a max of 3A but you don't want to use the max rating, this is for both switches

    You can also use KA & KB Parameter PD053=01

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Y1=PD50 is a input setting, this is for Frequency Up setting, ( to Increase the Frequency )

    Y2=PD51 is a input setting,for Frequency Down setting, ( to Decrease the Frequency )


    Your FB & FC Parameter PD052=01 will work for you, make sure you are not above 2.4A with your pump,you have a max of 3A but you don't want to use the max rating, this is for both switches

    You can also use KA & KB Parameter PD053=01
    Thanks for that, Mac - I was looking at page 20 of my manual, which describes PD50 as a "Y1 output" and PD051 as a "Y2 output". Then I look on page 40, and they are described as inputs (!?) All three (PD050, PD052, PD052) allow the setting to be a number from 1 to 32.

    However, in either case, nowhere in my manual are Y1 and Y2 described - they are not screw terminals to connect anything to, so what are they?

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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    The instruction book with Huanyang is miserable to say the least, the Y1 & Y2 refer to the opto open collector outputs rated for 24v 100ma.
    They are on the terminal strip DRV & UPF DCM is their Common.
    You can connect a suitable relay or SSR to them.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    revwarguy

    Not all there drives have this Function only some of the newer models, most have the standard control terminals as in the snips

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Driving coolant pump with VFD-control-terminal-png   Driving coolant pump with VFD-pd050-jpg   Driving coolant pump with VFD-y1-y2-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    As can be seen the defaults are set to DRV is VFD is in run, and UPF is up-to-freq where this is often used to issue a FINish signal back to the CNC when a M3/M4 is issued.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    The instruction book with Huanyang is miserable to say the least
    yowza!

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    the Y1 & Y2 refer to the opto open collector outputs rated for 24v 100ma.
    They are on the terminal strip DRV & UPF DCM is their Common.
    Al.
    I am mystified how you would know that if you were using my manual - there is nary a peep about it!

    I think I'll just use a SSR on FB and FC - it says 3-32 VDC on the SSR for input. Doubt it needs much current. Makes sense to me to have the VFD turn on its own cooling pump (as opposed to the coolant pump ) instead of Mach3, since it makes switching from Mach to manual control simpler. Also, "if it's turning, it's cooling" keeps it simple as well.

    One other parameter - How is PD144 determined? Why is it 1440 for a 24000 spindle? I saw someone describe this as "a multiplier for the display frequency" which is radically different than the manual's bogus description, of course. How is this multiplier determined? (24000/1440 = 16.666666 which doesn't help.)

    Also, PD141 - how is it different from PD008? Since I am using a 110VAC vfd, shouldn't both of these be 110, not 220?

    Thanks again for all the help guys.

    "72.6 per cent of all statistics are made up on the spot." - Steven Wright


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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by revwarguy View Post

    I am mystified how you would know that if you were using my manual - there is nary a peep about it!

    I think I'll just use a SSR on FB and FC - it says 3-32 VDC on the SSR for input. Doubt it needs much current. Makes sense to me to have the VFD turn on its own cooling pump (as opposed to the coolant pump ) instead of Mach3, since it makes switching from Mach to manual control simpler. .
    You could also use the DRV as-is if the SSR is 24vdc fed or less.
    I deduced it from checking the drive itself and also the term Y is used as an output, and also a transistor type output in some cases.
    You think this is bad, you should try deciphering their 'Modbus' interface.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by revwarguy View Post

    One other parameter - How is PD144 determined? Why is it 1440 for a 24000 spindle? I saw someone describe this as "a multiplier for the display frequency" which is radically different than the manual's bogus description, of course. How is this multiplier determined? (24000/1440 = 16.666666 which doesn't help.)

    Also, PD141 - how is it different from PD008? Since I am using a 110VAC vfd, shouldn't both of these be 110, not 220?

    Thanks again for all the help guys.
    I do not use the W.C. High rpm spindle but that is the other thing that does not make sense to me, the manual shows 24000 rpm but a 4 pole 1440 motor instead of a 2 pole ~3650 for the 24000 motor at 60hz.
    BTW there is a minimum rpm these motor should be run at otherwise you will burn them out due to their very low inductive reactance at low frequencies.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by revwarguy View Post
    yowza!



    I am mystified how you would know that if you were using my manual - there is nary a peep about it!

    I think I'll just use a SSR on FB and FC - it says 3-32 VDC on the SSR for input. Doubt it needs much current. Makes sense to me to have the VFD turn on its own cooling pump (as opposed to the coolant pump ) instead of Mach3, since it makes switching from Mach to manual control simpler. Also, "if it's turning, it's cooling" keeps it simple as well.

    One other parameter - How is PD144 determined? Why is it 1440 for a 24000 spindle? I saw someone describe this as "a multiplier for the display frequency" which is radically different than the manual's bogus description, of course. How is this multiplier determined? (24000/1440 = 16.666666 which doesn't help.)

    Also, PD141 - how is it different from PD008? Since I am using a 110VAC vfd, shouldn't both of these be 110, not 220?

    Tt's not in your manual because it most likely is not functional, even though it is on the Terminals, they are not always functional

    PD141 & PD008 have a slightly different function, Both need to be set to your Spindle Motor Voltage 220V if that is what your spindle Voltage is, Not your AC input Voltage of 120V

    PD144 needs to be set to it's max which is 3000

    Your settings need to be like this

    Huanyang Mactec54
    PD000=0 for Parameter unlock ( 1 ) for Parameter Lock

    PD001=0 (1 For Remote Control)

    PD002=0

    PD003=400

    PD004=400

    PD005=400

    PD007=20

    PD008=220

    PD009=15

    PD010=8

    PD011=120 (Minimum Setting 120)

    PD13= 08 is for Factory reset, Only use this to set VFD to Factory Default Settings

    PD014 Accel=12 ( Adjust to suit)

    PD015 Deccl=12 (Adjust to suit) ( PD15 is ignored IF PD26=1 Then the Spindle will Coast to a Stop)

    PD141=220 ( Motor Rated Voltage )

    PD142=9 ( Motor Max Amps) (Set for your motor Amp Rating 2.2Kw Spindle 9 amp Max)
    (Set for your motor Amp Rating 1.5Kw Spindle 7 amp Max)

    PD143=2 ( Motor Number of Poles)

    PD144=3000 (Max Motor RPM) =3,000= (24,000)

    For Remote Pot use
    PD002=1

    PD70=0

    PD72=400

    PD73=120

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    revwarguy

    The manuals are a mess, I have 4 that have different use for the same Terminals, 1 New one is saying they are inputs, 2 say they are outputs, 1 has no listing at all but does show the Terminals

    If you have the SSR then try what Al.has suggested as if this is working on your drive, just try the DRV & DCM connected to your SSR, then see if it is switching the SSR output terminals
    win win if it is working

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Driving coolant pump with VFD

    Ok, I am convinced to use the DRV/DCM approach for the SSR.

    Since the rated (nameplate or inked) value written on my motor is 110V, 5 amp, 24000 rpm, 100hz I will try the following after doing a

    PD013 = 8
    to reset the brazillion parameters to at least a known value. Then,

    PD000=0 for Parameter unlock ( 1 ) for Parameter Lock

    PD001=0 (1 For Remote Control)

    PD002=0

    PD003=400

    PD004=400

    PD005=400

    PD007=20 /* not sure why */

    PD008=110

    PD009=15 /* not sure why */

    PD010=8 /* not sure why - this is a 220 number, but what for 110? */

    PD011=120 /* ok, but not sure why 120? */

    PD014 Accel=12 ( Adjust to suit)

    PD015 Deccl=12 (Adjust to suit)

    PD023 = 1 /* allow for/rev */

    PD052 = 1 /* do I need this for DRV/DCM? */

    PD141=110

    PD142=5

    PD143=2

    PD144=3000

    Look right now?

    From there, I will experiment with either Mach control or having a remote pot. Any advice either way?

    PS When I get this working to snuff, I will document these on my website for anyone with a 110 set.

    Last edited by revwarguy; 04-13-2015 at 04:22 PM.
    "72.6 per cent of all statistics are made up on the spot." - Steven Wright


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