Moving machinery with a Pallet Jack

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    Registered damae's Avatar
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    Default Moving machinery with a Pallet Jack

    It seems the first big challenge in DIY retrofitting is to get your heavy mill or lathe home. That's a challenge daunting enough to keep many from ever buying a large machine, be it a Bridgeport mill or a Monarch lathe.

    My hope is that if we get enough good advice and experience posted here, we can move this thread to the FAQ section for everyone's benefit.

    Many of us have used an engine hoist (shop crane, as Harbor Freight calls it) to move our equipment, to get it onto and off of a trailer and even to move it into position. These shop cranes are great for lifting in place, however, I can say from experience, that actually scooting a mill along using a shop crane is tricky and leaves you feeling like you're cheating death, or at least narrowly missing an injury.

    A lot of folks feel that it is outright unsafe to move a mill with a shop crane. There are a few posts from people who had a mill tip over on them!


    So how do professional Machine Movers (also called Riggers) do it? They have 10,000 lb forklifts to lift and transport the equipment, and "skates" to maneuver the machine the final distance into spaces forklifts can't fit into. I got to thinking about this -- is a pallet jack essentially the same thing as these "skates" that riggers use?

    If so, it seems that the combination of a shop crane ($150 from HF) and a pallet jack ($200-$300) would make moving machinery affordable and much safer than the shop crane alone. If you don't think that cost is affordable, compare to $195/hour for Riggers, including their lunch break!

    So has anyone used this combination to move Bridgeport-sized machinery? How well did it work? Are there safety concerns, or is this in fact a good way to go? I found three seperate ads on craigslist for used pallet jacks (2 ton) for under $100, so that sounds like a pretty attractive option.

    Thoughts? Ideas? Advice? Let it rip!

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    Monkeywrench Technician DareBee's Avatar
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    Pallet carts are somewhat flexible and have a 3 point stance. I have done it before but a knee mill is working on the limit of one of these carts. For a cheap DIY try using 5 or 6 pieces of 2" pipe and roll the machine same as the Egyptions built the pyramids.
    Your riggers are expensive - my charge out is $56/hour for machine moving and you wont pay for our lunch.
    Forklift and or overhead crane is best for moving a knee mill, their center of gravity is relatively high.

    www.integratedmechanical.ca


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    Check out the local fork lift rental places and/or towing services.

    We had to move some stuff lately and both came in REAL handy.

    The fork lift place delivered and picked up a machine that easily lifted what we had to move. Paid a daily fee that was cheap all things considered.

    The towing service lifted and transported the equipment onto a flat bed once we spotted it outside the shop. And it was MUCH cheaper than the riggers and the towing guys did as much/little damage as you'd let them.

    If you're doing things in a house, shop environment, you might try "Two Men and a Truck". They can supply 'muscle' which can come in handy.

    When you move a machine, the factory manuals usually show you how to lift them. Follow the instructions TO THE LETTER.

    A "bridgeport" is lifted "high" (right under the knee head close to the column). Lift it "low" and COG is real high and it gets real "tippy". You HAVE been warned.

    A lathe should also be lifted "high". When we moved our CNC's, we put a couple bars under the beds and dropped slings down to them. Lifted and moved them slowly and effortlessly as COG was kept below the lift point.

    Learned a lesson when we moved and dropped a bench lathe (minor road rash thankfully) recently. Lifted it by putting lift forks under bed - it rolled off.

    Righted it by putting a 30" piece of pipe in the chuck and ran the steady rest up against the other end. Lifted it straight up, self-righted itself easily and moved easily thereafter. We'll use that method here on out as it keeps the COG below the lift plane and the thing isn't "tippy".



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    Member JPMach's Avatar
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    If your gonna be real serious about moving equipment around I suggest taking a material handling class at the local tech college. They will teach you what to watch out for and how to properly lift items so that they stay level durring lift and also what kinds of lifting mediums to use ie chain, cable,sling.

    I also suggest just buying a set of actual skates. Last I looked a set of hillman rollers 8ton were about $700 but there were some lighter duty ones for less money also. I believe you can rent different kinds of skates from the rental shops also. When we moved our safe into the house we had some low profile heavy duty furniture skates.

    JP



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    Rolling along on pipe or round bar as Darebee suggests is more tedious but sometimes more stable than pallet jacks. There are a few things to watch for: Make sure the floor is smooth and clean because the tiniest chip will stop the pipe rolling. Remember the machine moves forward on the pipe and will eventually get past the balance point so three identical lengths are needed. Check the floor for level! This might seem unnecessary but poured concrete floors in commercial buildings often undulate an inch or more in a distance of 10 to 20 feet. A 5000 lb machine on rollers can run away down a slope and the person caught between it and another machine may suffer more than just bruises. (Guess how I know this ) For lifting always use equipment that is rated well above the weight of the machine; if you are right on the margin and do not lower it smoothly the bounce when try to stop it can go over the limit and fold up your engine hoist. (Ditto) And as NC says lift from a high point and especially with forklifts make sure the center of gravity is centered on the forks or toward the mast. Dropping a bench lathe is nothing compared with dropping a 5600 lb, ten feet long turret lathe from a height of 18 inches. That attracts attention from two blocks away!



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    A few things to point out:

    #1
    If you do hire riggers, the machine becomes their responsibility until moved into place. This is something you need to consider especially as the machine becomes bigger. Size isn't the only reason, rare and exspensive machinery can benefit from a riggers experience and insurance policy.

    #2
    Using pallet jacks to move machinery is iffy at best and requires at least two or three people just to roll the item around and keep it up right. A pallet jack by the way is not a riggers "skate" in any shape or form, it is just what the name describes a tool for moving pallets. Pallets by the way that normally have good load distribution. I can't say that I've never moved a machine with a pallet jack, but the voice of experience demands that I point out that it is less than optimal.

    #3
    Fork lifts are commonly used to move machinery around with varing degrees of success. A already pointed out you can have huge problems with some machines that are not well balanced. It does pay to read those manuals that come with the machines. Like all things large though the size of a fork lift does get in the way.

    #4
    If you really want to move machinery around like a rigger then the reasonable thing to do is to buy/rent the tools the use. Get the rollers (skates), pry bars, comealongs and whatever else you want or need for the project and have at it. Do realize that you will not be working with the same experience level that a rigger would have.

    #5
    If you can budget for the machine you should be able to budget for the move of the machine. It all comes down to $$$$$$s in the end. Ask yourself if you can afford to loose the investment that you currently have in the machine to a mistake made in moving the hardware around. If you can't put the move on somebodies insurance policy (hire a rigger). If you can afford the lost atleast minimize the potential negative by using the right tools. A pallet jack really isn't the right tool and combined with the wrong machine can be down right dangerous. Riggers exist for the simple reason that any other specialist exists, that is to help the consumer manage his risk.

    It is sort of like electrical work, almost everybody in this forum has some ability to do electrical work in his shop. To some extent or the other. The thing is many of us would not build a new shop and do everything required to complete that shop including the electrical service. Especially if the business or work is still a priority. Might be different in retirement or for a home project but it is hard to make money while you focus on building a facility to work in. In other words everybody at some time or another has the need for the serivces of a specialist.

    #6
    Consider disassembly! Personally I've moved some rather large tools into my shop, in the cellar, with out any help. Things like a band saw and a lathe. I did this by disassembly before moving. Disassembly to the point that the part feel light, then carried them or slide them down the steps. Works for a home shop for machines to the small end of the spectrum or those with a lot of parts. Just make sure abotu the light part of the deal, a frame of a band saw can get very heavy when bearing against you shoulder on the way down the steps. Back to your proble this woouldn't work with larger CNC machines, but then agian the steps to the cellar would hold against the weight of a Bridgeport or anything else.

    #7
    This brings up the next item. Know everything you can know about the physical machine. It size in all demensions, its weight and the weight and size of all of its sub assemblies. It also doesn't hurt to verify that the machine can sit where you expect ot put it. For example if you break a Bridgeport down into components you still have to deal with one piece that is about 700 pounds. Knowing this you might make a determination that a break down isn't worth it.

    That is how I see it. Play safe

    Thanks
    Dave



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    Monkeywrench Technician DareBee's Avatar
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    FYI

    My local rental shop has machinery skates for $100/day
    A forklift should be $350/day + shipping (normally $85/hour).
    Renting the needed and proper equipment is best.
    Machinery skates under a knee mill is SCARY - forklift is best.

    www.integratedmechanical.ca


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    Excellent advice and info guys! It sounds like a pallet jack isn't as much of a step-up as I thought it was.

    That was a good suggestion to take a class on material handling. I had done a quick search of the web looking for resources to show me the right way to do it, but came up empty. I may go look for a local class!

    This post was intended to be general Q&A about the next best DIY method to move a machine and usually that move is to or from a location. Of course, calling a rigger is the absoulte best option, for the many good reasons stated in posts above. I was hoping to zero-in on the most effective DIY method. I think it's safe to say we should keep the underlying theme of "Call a rigger, unless you're willing to take on risk and learn to do things right!"
    In my particular case, I am thinking mainly about moving machinery around in my garage. I have a 20' x 20' two-car garage to work with and find myself scooting machines around to juggle the space.

    So I'm looking for a good way to move the equipment from one spot to another spot 10 feet away. I'd like to be able to do it on a whim, to move machines to get access to things behind them, or to rearrange the shop.

    Forklifts won't fit inside the 8' ceiling.

    Two DIY ideas seem to suit this situation:
    1. Buy the professional quality skates. (and maybe jacks too) Where would I look for these? What is the correct term I can use in a search of ebay or craigslist (without turning up skate bearings and roller skates?)

    2. Build a steel frame on wheels purpose-designed to lift my machines (they're both Series I Bridgeports). I'm thinking 4" square tubes welded into a frame that can lift high, but remain stable (big footprint). Is this crazy talk, or can such a thing be practical? I'd buy the steel from a scrapyard and weld it together myself. Something that could fold down quickly for storage, perhaps.

    I invite your opinions!



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    "So I'm looking for a good way to move the equipment from one spot to another spot 10 feet away. I'd like to be able to do it on a whim, to move machines to get access to things behind them, or to rearrange the shop."

    If you are only moving a short distance sometimes it is easier to use a long pry bar. Most machines have notches in the base and it is possible to walk the machine along working alternately on each side. This is energetic but often quicker than going to the trouble of jacking the machine up, putting skates under, moving it and then taking the skates out. Anything up to 5000 lb can be moved fairly easily with a pry bar.

    An alternate if you have anchor points available is to have a sheet of heavy plywood under the machine with a couple of strips of UHMW polyethylene as skids under it. A come-along will slide it very readily.



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    1. Hilman rollers can be bought from MSC or Grainger
    2. You could very easily build a small Gantry crane that just fit your cieling hieght and put a chain block in it or something. Look up Gantry cranes in catalogs like Msc to get an idea of size for I beam for load lifted. Still will be pain to move as when you try and move crane the machine starts to swing which then causes the crane to move in short bursts, much like with a cherry picker.

    JP



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    I have all 3 of my Bridgeport knee mills on pallets. When I want to move them around the shop, I just grab the pallet jack and move them as needed.



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    When I bought my Jet BP clone, I picked it up at the terminal, hauling it away with my 6x12 tandem axle trailer. I hoisted it off with a home made gantry crane made of wood. The main beam was a pair of 2x12s lag bolted together, 10 feet high. The pallet that came with the mill was designed for forklifts only. My pallet jack forks would not fit between the 4"x4" wood supports.

    I moved the machine into my garage pallet-less using a shop crane set in 1-ton mode. The small 3.5" steel wheels dug into the concrete of my driveway and would hardly budge. I had to take a pallet jack from the other side to assist the crane. It took me 30 minutes to move it 30 feet.

    So yes, those two pieces of equipment will help move a BP, but it's a royal PITA. I scratched up the base of my machine... chipped off quite a bit of paint and bondo. The engine crane is just too narrow, as the base gets wedged in between the legs.

    If you're tall enough, I'd recommend putting the machine on a pallet as Eric has done. I'm 6' and wouldn't want my machine to be raised more than 3-4". Any more than that and I'd probably curse every time I reached for the drawbar.



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    like Geof says, 6' pry bar and some enthusiastic energy and I've re-arranged my shop. pipe rollers are also handy as is some plywood. When my 2000+lb xlo arrived, I tilted the head to get it in the garage and then the three movers manually walked it to the back corner. never regretted hiring them.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver
    like Geof says, 6' pry bar and some enthusiastic energy
    No I did not! Not enthusiastic! I am way past that.



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    Hi all you heavy lifters
    I have moved Bridgports and heaver mills 7,000lbs and more with very little help and safe I just moved 3 mills a lathe and grinder from MN to TN
    I have a 5,000lb trailer and a dolly that will take 5,000lbs the dolly I made it has 4
    wheels with a jack on each corner it fits under any machine with only 3/8 clearance
    the dolly slides under the front and the back of the machine and is tied together with
    2 tiebars one on each side once in place you can turn the jackscrews to get the height
    that you want one person can then move it any were you want safely. Pallet jacks
    are ok if you don't turn sharp if you do you can tip your load over we do use Pallet jacks some times but I have found the dolly to be the best and safest for moving machines around once you have it off the truck trailer even better than skates it does not damage the floor like some skates will a Gantry is my choice for lifting machines
    but is not always an option and you have to use a forklift how and were you lift
    a machine from is important most manufacturers offer a guide on how and where to
    lift a machine you should always do it to what they recommend or you will damage
    the machine and yourself

    Mactec54


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    Monkeywrench Technician DareBee's Avatar
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    BTW
    A forklift that will handle kneemills will easily operate under an 8' ceiling. You would have to make a boom attachment.
    My old yale will go through a double man door and lift 6000#, it has a full cage.

    www.integratedmechanical.ca


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    Have you called an actual rigging company just to ask for some tips? You might be suprised @ what you might find out just by making a call.



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    Quote Originally Posted by DareBee
    BTW
    A forklift that will handle kneemills will easily operate under an 8' ceiling. You would have to make a boom attachment.
    My old yale will go through a double man door and lift 6000#, it has a full cage.
    You see, that's what I really need! =) Of course, my garage ceiling is 8', but the opening is just 7'5". I would love to own one, but parking a forklift in the driveway would probably draw the same envious stares that my other neighbor gets for parking a full-sized Kenworth Tractor in our neighborhood street.

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54
    ...I have a 5,000lb trailer and a dolly that will take 5,000lbs the dolly I made it has 4 wheels with a jack on each corner it fits under any machine with only 3/8 clearance the dolly slides under the front and the back of the machine and is tied together with 2 tiebars one on each side once in place you can turn the jackscrews to get the height
    that you want one person can then move it any were you want safely...
    Pictures, man, we need pics! Seriously, this sounds like a nice piece of equipment, perhaps something I could even make myself. I did an ebay search and realized that bottle jacks are cheap and could be built into toe jacks (like the homebrew ones being sold on ebay) or into a custom lifting dolly made specially for the base of a BP! Sounds like what you built would work very well!

    http://search.ebay.com/search/search...%26catref%3DC6

    Quote Originally Posted by Zumba
    When I bought my Jet BP clone, I picked it up at the terminal, hauling it away with my 6x12 tandem axle trailer. I hoisted it off with a home made gantry crane made of wood...
    A wood gantry to pick up a BP!! Ok, I'm impressed! Pics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zumba
    ...So yes, those two pieces of equipment will help move a BP, but it's a royal PITA. I scratched up the base of my machine... chipped off quite a bit of paint and bondo. The engine crane is just too narrow, as the base gets wedged in between the legs.
    Yeah, I noticed that too. My shop crane loves to wedge its own legs above the base of the BP, essentially preventing itself from being able to lift!

    Quote Originally Posted by JPMach
    1. Hilman rollers can be bought from MSC or Grainger
    2. You could very easily build a small Gantry crane that just fit your cieling hieght and put a chain block in it or something....
    JP
    Yikes! The retail prices on that professional gear is more than I paid for my mills! You get what you pay for.. unless you make it yourself. (Then what, do you pay double?) That is, after all, the DIY motto (and the wife's retort) I am definately leaning toward building something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geof
    ... If you are only moving a short distance sometimes it is easier to use a long pry bar. ...

    ...An alternate if you have anchor points available is to have a sheet of heavy plywood under the machine with a couple of strips of UHMW polyethylene as skids under it. A come-along will slide it very readily.
    Sounds worth a try. Does it damage the concrete? At least prybars are cheap!



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    Default Moving a lathe

    A university machine shop is consolidating, and I just acquired a Southbend CL0145B lathe for $400. The two exits are a loading dock (std semi height) without a hoist and a handycapped ramp with a few turns. It'll be tied down onto my open deck car trailer. I searched, but didn't find any specific info on rigging a lathe. Would I be able to lift the headstock side with an engine hoist and sling, and use a furniture dolly on the tailstock end under the legs? Possibly buy some car dollies from Harbor Freight on the way down to MD? I could fab something with casters here before I head down Wednesday, or bring the MIG, chopsaw, and angle iron to do something on site. What's the proper way to tie it down on the trailer? I'll have my 10 ton ratchet straps from the racecar, a 20T keeper strap, and would buy anything else needed, but I'm trying to keep things inexpensive, otherwise the lathe isn't worth it for me (I need to put in a single phase motor too...). I'd love to learn from you guys, rather than making my own mistakes and trashing the lathe accidentally. Thanks for any insight!

    Andris



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    Getting it out of the room is a challenge. We found we could move ours by picking one end up with a decent fork lift. If you pick up the gear box end and pivot it on a piece of timber, you can slide a floor jack under the tail stock and steer it while moving the heavy end with the fork lift.

    Call a local wrecking service that has machinery moving experience - one that has a boom truck is often experienced at doing such moves or at least draggind machinery out of buildings - we found on on the first call and he apparently moved machinery quite a bit and was real good at it.

    Have them pick up the lathe and set it from the dock to your trailer. The balance point should be near/close to the spindle nose.

    Once you get it to the trailer, tie it down in a > < fashion with the > tied around the gearbox/spindle housing to the trailer corners and the < around tail stock to the rear trailer corners.

    Tie the rear down MORE as you shouldn't be drag racing while towing and the stronger rear tie down will keep it from sliding forward under severe braking.

    Getting it off when you get home is a whole new issue- Two hard core swing sets can lift it and you simply drive the trailer out from under it.

    Considering that you got the lathe on a deal, don't piss away the savings by damaging it learing how to be a machinery mover - life is too frigging short.



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