Smithy AutoMate

[tmarks11]

"Solvent traps". hahaha. Don't tell BATF.

This is the sort of business that you need to be very careful with; BATF doesn't play around and they are known to change their minds about the legality of firearms modifications without notice.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdla/pr...ling-silencers

[brianbonedoc]

Yeah I had to look up what the heck a solvent trap was. I still don't get it? What are those cups for? Do you just shoot a hole through them? I though I knew a bit about firearms, guess not!

[daniellyall]

they are for disrupting the gas flow like what a break does, there is a lot of ways to do them

[brianbonedoc]

Daniel yes but the cups are solid. So how does the round go thru the 'trap'

[tmarks11]

Yeah I had to look up what the heck a solvent trap was. I still don't get it? What are those cups for? Do you just shoot a hole through them? I though I knew a bit about firearms, guess not!

A "solvent trap" is a suppressor (silencer). To make it work, you have to drill a hole through the end cap and through each of those cups. They already center drilled each cup to make it easy.

The "solvent trap" fiction makes it sort of legal to buy. Since (supposedly) you are screwing this on the end of your barrel to catch the solvent when you clean your rifle.

Of course, before you start drilling, you have to pay your $200 for your NFA stamp (and wait months and months to get it back). In the link I posted above, the machinist was pre-drilling some of those holes.... so it was a functional suppressor, not a "solvent trap".

The problem with basing your business off of this sort of thing is that BATF is known to change their mind without warning, regardless of what sort of letter you got from them. They could call this "constructive intent" if you own a solvent trap and a drill press (hasn't happened yet, but it falls in line with some of the other things they call "constructive intent"). And send you to jail. And send the machinist to jail for building these things without a license. The laws are general enough to be hard to defend against.

Another machinist was selling a "muzzle brake" that was about 6" long, 1.5" diameter with scallops cut out all along the length. Slip a tube over it, and voila! suppresor. He is in jail now

Suppressor "kits" sell for $300, so it is easy money.... until you fall afoul of BATF. Some view sales of this online as "honey traps". Buy one, and a few months later get a visit from your friendly agent to see how well that "solvent trap" is working.

[brianbonedoc]

Tim - finally that makes sense! Thank you! Hopefully congress will pass the hearing protection act and allow use of these to protect the hearing - for the children of course!

[tmarks11]

As I said, easy money.

The guy in the video above got like 700 orders in three months. I believe he had a old junked cnc lathe he had brought back to life that died on him, which is why he was so ecstatic about the Automat. Smithy were the only people selling something he could afford who had them in stock (no waiting).

That last is kind of important when you have 700 angry customers, $100k of their money in your pocket, and a broken, clapped out cnc lathe....

[daniellyall]

I cant understand the rules you boys have most of them are stupid, give everyone a gun and why would you pull it out

[GITERDUN]

A "solvent trap" is a suppressor (silencer). To make it work, you have to drill a hole through the end cap and through each of those cups. They already center drilled each cup to make it easy.

The "solvent trap" fiction makes it sort of legal to buy. Since (supposedly) you are screwing this on the end of your barrel to catch the solvent when you clean your rifle.

Of course, before you start drilling, you have to pay your $200 for your NFA stamp (and wait months and months to get it back). In the link I posted above, the machinist was pre-drilling some of those holes.... so it was a functional suppressor, not a "solvent trap".

The problem with basing your business off of this sort of thing is that BATF is known to change their mind without warning, regardless of what sort of letter you got from them. They could call this "constructive intent" if you own a solvent trap and a drill press (hasn't happened yet, but it falls in line with some of the other things they call "constructive intent"). And send you to jail. And send the machinist to jail for building these things without a license. The laws are general enough to be hard to defend against.

Another machinist was selling a "muzzle brake" that was about 6" long, 1.5" diameter with scallops cut out all along the length. Slip a tube over it, and voila! suppresor. He is in jail now

Suppressor "kits" sell for $300, so it is easy money.... until you fall afoul of BATF. Some view sales of this online as "honey traps". Buy one, and a few months later get a visit from your friendly agent to see how well that "solvent trap" is working.

As I suggested before, he should stay in his garage- and add to that, stop making videos. This could backfire (pun) bigtime on him and Smithy as well if they are using his video to sell machines.

[Ican]

As I said, easy money.

The guy in the video above got like 700 orders in three months. I believe he had a old junked cnc lathe he had brought back to life that died on him, which is why he was so ecstatic about the Automat. Smithy were the only people selling something he could afford who had them in stock (no waiting).

That last is kind of important when you have 700 angry customers, $100k of their money in your pocket, and a broken, clapped out cnc lathe....

I have a customer in Georgia that literally begged me to make these "Solvent Traps" . I thought about it but I had that feeling in my stomach that said NO. My Dad always told me.... " When you feel that, follow it". I have never been sorry that I turned that down. I had one other request a month or so back to make something..... I won't say what as I just don't want to spread the thought in any manner. I will say, deadly and insane!. The request was so off the wall, that my stomach didn't have time to tell me anything... NO, Hell NO!! popped right in there. Those of us with machines that can literally make..... anything on earth and some things that aren't ..... sure might want to think before leaping. Just my 2 cents!! Dan

[tmarks11]

In my book, if you are going to manufacture firearms and accessories, do it right and get registered. If you are going to manufacture NFA items, then get the right license and call a spade a spade ("suppressor" not "solvent trap"). Playing games like this could land the machinist in jail, and possibly his customers as well (I wonder how many of those 700 orders from the video paid their $200 NFA fee? With 700 orders, he could have afforded the $3000 license fee).

If Sin Arms wanders back, I am sure he can provide the professional's counterpoint to this, since he does this for a living.

[sin_arms]

A lot of people get into making parts for guns or building guns/gun work without a license because they think "why should I pay $150 for this when I can do it for free", then they start doing it for friends and then they start doing it for their buddies and so on. Where the ATF sees it you can build as many guns/accessories/gun work as you want but once you take a payment for it you are a business and you need the proper licenses. Could be a simple type 01 FFL which is $200 for 3 years then $100 to renew or a type 10 FFL which is $3000, Plus $2850 (yearly ITAR), plus $500-1000 (yearly SOT). So depending on what you do it could cost you $9k a year in license and taxes, not to mention all of the other costs associated with running a business.

[tmarks11]

So depending on what you do it could cost you $9k a year in license and taxes, not to mention all of the other costs associated with running a business.

Cheaper than defending yourself against a felony charge....

Some of these websites selling "alternate use" products are hilarious. One goes on and on about the "charged rods" (in "solvent trap" internal baffling) which enables you to determine "types of wear products from your rifle when cleaning". Do they think BATF is filled with idiots, and will look at that and say "oh, yeah, clearly not baffles for a suppressor after all, our mistake"?

[Cal_Mach]

I've been looking into buying the Automate Lathe because to the low price compared to similar machines I was quoted. I would be purchasing it sight unseen, except for the pictures on the web page. How is your machine running? ... Ralph

[sin_arms]

I've been looking into buying the Automate Lathe because to the low price compared to similar machines I was quoted. I would be purchasing it sight unseen, except for the pictures on the web page. How is your machine running? ... Ralph

Mine still isn't running right, been down for ~160 days of not running correctly. Not even a year old yet.

[Cal_Mach]

Sorry to hear that. That's what I was afraid of. I think I'll shy away from this machine till I see more positive feedback. I hope you get your problem with the machine solved.

[Fig]

in for updates. Interested as well, but as the saying goes, a machine that is not working costs more that what you paid for it. I already have some fun projects that I need to get rid of so looking for something to make parts and not break down. Has anyone had to contact Siemens directly for parts replacements vs Smithy? I had good experience with them on older stuff.
Mike

[brianbonedoc]

Fig - an update from an FL300-II owner (not at all a professional):

I had trouble with a limit switch sticking a bit and contacted smithy via phone. Within an hour they had shipped a new one out to me under warranty.
So for me the service has been top notch!

The lathe itself is a gem. It's so smooth and powerful. And the rapids are so fast, it's almost hard to watch videos of the tormach spl moving, feels like slow motion!

[Fig]

That is great to hear brianbonedoc. I think in the end the support is key for me. I am an electrical and computer engineer so I can troubleshoot anything... but I would rather be making parts. Sometimes I can get to a solution faster than a tech, so being able to order specific parts would be awesome. I will keep following threads and see which direction I take. Might be an SL6 with a live tool C

[brianbonedoc]

Fig - that would be an awesome machine. If you get the live tool package make sure you get the 808d advanced. It has some features that should really help the C axis like TRANSMIT and TRACYL.