Belt drive in the works ! - Page 2


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Thread: Belt drive in the works !

  1. #21
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    The top bearing of the spindle only supports the top of the spindle, the load of the drive is carried by the driver which has a gear on it and an ID spline drive for spindle. the top bearing takes no load and only spins. The other place i'm using one is very similar, no load to speak of just a little added support for the shaft that the motor plugs into, which carried a gear and will next have a pully. So what i'm saying is "Don't worry about it dude" this 40deg bearing will do the job like being on vacation !

    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


  2. #22
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    Cruiser, I thought you were converting this to a belt drive (which exerts a radial load from the motor/tool and belt tension). A gear is a bunch of levers extending out from the center. Unless the gear in question is an idler, it also has radial load exerted on it. A 40 deg. angular contact bearing is designed for mostly axial load (in one direction which is why they are normally used in opposed pairs) and partial radial load. I don't worry about anything, including your spindle, but maybe you should start. Anyway, I hope for the best, good luck dude.

    DZASTR


  3. #23
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    Dzastr, Well, its simple really it is, the belt drive tension will be taken by other bearings than these angulars ! For a little clarity go back and see pic of gear box lid with two shafts one of which is splined (pic 2) and maybe you will see what will take the load. also another pic (pic 1)you will see the lid with some bearings and the shafts sitting atop, one of the bearings for support duty is in the lid and the bearingd end of longer shaft will enter it adding just a little security and actually could be left out altogether. I do know a little something of bearings and everything is fine. Now the spindle will take one of those angulars in the top position, with more radial than thrust with the precision at bottom taking the thrust and radial load of cutting and shock. what did I miss now ?

    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


  4. #24
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    Cruiser, You just pulled an Ace from your sleeve with that bearing in the cover! That is part of my "bag of tricks". If everything is lined up properly, what is really your middle angular contact bearing will probably last as you have said. As long as the spindle shaft stays straight and the middle bearing is lubricated, it is actually redundant. Only thing left now will be the small amount of end play coming from the clearance in the front "precision" bearing. What is that bearing anyway? I,m making one of those assumptions that we never should that it is a deep groove ball bearing.

    DZASTR


  5. #25
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    Dzastr, I think the stock bearings are deep groove ball as they have a wiggle and says spin me. there are two on the driver which the spindle slides into and is pretty firm with both bearings. the stock bearing on the driven shaft which connects to motor is same and with the little spinner on the end which rides in bottom of box i'd be prone to switch my angular with the stock so the shaft will hold angular into play and the stocker can do support. but the way it all fits together i don't really it will matter or make any differance. what really counts is getting the parts and putting it all into play. with the call a little while ago i find that everything is available except the smaller pully which will mount on the spindle driver. The other concern is that i ordered the correct belt, with a 6.102" or 155 mm center distance my belt selected will fit "net". But ! will everything nest together as planned ? The way things have been going lately ! I'm worried and i'll be several weeks for the little guy to arrive off back order to find out. So I sit and wait and ammuse myself here wondering, what did I miss ? what did I forget !

    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


  6. #26
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    Just a short update, I did switch the two bearings per above puting the AC on shaft side and the stock on support side and it made all kinds of differance. It is now maybe 300% more rigid as the AC now has axial load (minimal) the shaft when assembled will hold the AC solid. Most of my parts will be in next week with the small driven pully being out 3 weeks !

    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


  7. #27
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    Cruiser, I have to start over.(my fault, I didn't realize the spindle was a quill type. Now driver etc. makes sense) IN AN IDEAL WORLD, the gear or "soon to be belt" driver would be supported on both sides with a bearing. Since the driver really sees mostly radial force. It sees only the axial force from whatever friction is involved with the splines on the spindle shaft moving thru the driver.
    The spindle shaft (again, in AN IDEAL WORLD) would have at least two bearings or sets of bearings supporting radially and axially. The axial support is needed to counter the push and pull of cutting tools and maintain position axially.
    The clearance built into typical nonA/C bearings will have some degree of end play. How much your application will tolerate is up to you and your wallet. Personally, I,d go with A/C's but I don't pay for them, my client's do.

    Guess what I found in my desk drawer? An SKF double row cylindrical roller bearing with a 20mm ID, 42mm OD and 16mm Width. The cage is brass or bronze and hold the rollers in alternating positions so they are not next to each other. The inner race also is shouldered on both ends to retain the rollers. The outer race is plain, it can slide right off the ends. My desk is kindalike your tool box.
    Well, gotta go, Good Luck

    Last edited by RICHARD ZASTROW; 04-21-2007 at 02:15 PM. Reason: typo's
    DZASTR


  8. #28
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    Cruiser, That bearing I found turned out to be an SKF high precision NN3004K 1:12 taper bore spindle bearing. This is supposed to be part of an extremely stiff spindle bearing setup SKF calls "The NN Solution" in a brochure I had laying around in my archives dated 1989. I am getting old.

    DZASTR


  9. #29
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    Well, after ordering parts for this adventure twice now and cancelling twice ! Today I worked with the salesman (who really earned his oats) till we had a working system of parts that are available and ordered ! they will be in late next week. As for the spindle bearing, we did some crunching there too and i bought the AC and a seal for the bottom, and i already have a store of AC's for the top. So today I pulled the gearbox (empty!) off the machine and started to do the conversions in play. I still have one conversion that i haven't mention'd but i did give it a name "Can't E Lever" ! can ya figure it out ? My gear ratio has changed with todays engeneering to give me a top rpm of just over 5800. So I should have aluminum speeds covered and maybe still be able to work steel with small endmills. Hopefully i'll have the heavy work done this weekend and have it ready to just install and try out. I am seriously hoping that getting rid of the gear noise will elliminate the problems of noise interferance with the electronics. That box really got noisy after the spindle bearings going out and changing the oil. We shall see !

    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


  10. #30
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    Default Progress Slow

    "A thousand Words" !
    I am progressing quite better than expected with my rendition of "can't e lever" ! read (can't even lever)

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Belt drive in the works !-1-000-words-jpg  
    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


  11. #31
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    Cool! Looking forward to seeing more. Why the milling on the side of the column? Dave



  12. #32
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    Oh, maybe you are mounting the rail and bearing blocks on the side of the column and connecting the Z slide and bearing blocks with a plate, thus transferring the cantalevering force to the bearing blocks instead of the Z slide dovetails?



  13. #33
    Gold Member BobWarfield's Avatar
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    Ah, very good. I've been writing about putting linear slides on an Asian lathe for some time and now someone's going to do it. Should be interesting!

    The router jig is presumably making a nice true spot for the rails to be bolted down on. Does everything clear the existing dovetails?

    If I were going this far, I'd be tempted to move the ballscrew out of the column and fill that column with epoxy/granite ala Davo's base.

    Best,

    BW



  14. #34
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    Cruiser, very cool thread!

    Are you changing tapers also?

    Why do you feel the cantilever mod is necessary for your mill? Do you think you will see a big improvement?



  15. #35
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    the tapers if spindle is what your refering to NO i'm using same spindle but new bearings. The cantelevering is only a problem when pressure is applied that can lift the head and with the added pressure needed in the gib to make the differance then it starts spreading the dove and making it difficult for the drive, this will take the pressure needed to lift and hold the weight of the box and allow me to back off the gib to near neutral and hopefully relieve the friction tremendously. I've been thinking of doing this since i got the machine and first tried setting the gib and noticed what was happening and did some measuring. Now if it just works as planned. I am drilling now, i made a custom tap drill bushing and i've been clamping measuring and and and etc ! Warning don't use the high carbon taps, only high speed ! The surface milled with the router turned out satisfactory, its not perfect by any means, but is is trued to the axis now close enough that it'll work. the most important measure at this time is the trueness to the slide along the axis and i'm setting it to the nut ! (so far) only 20 more holes to go. the brackets to hold the bearings on the rails will have to wait till i have the mill running again. OH I washed the slides off after the milling to get rid of the cast dust and found that it didn't want to drive anymore, that means the molylube i put on the slides really does do wonders against stickion. I will put some more on after my final cleanup ! As for moving the ball screw and filling the collumn, I'd say Just a waste of time ! The collumn is plenty stout now, just needs this and the set screw helpers for aligning, and it'll do fine. and when the belt drive comes in I'm hoping it all works out too .....

    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


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    Default Good news Bad news

    This is an update, i got the rails mounted and looking good. then i cleaned up a bit more and smeared molylube on the slide & run it in some and found out the bad news ! I went just a bit too low and heard the triplets go tink tink katink in the chip pan. they were easy to find but seems i have created more work necessary that i don't want to do ! This is enough for now i guess, i'm tired. Probably should have kept this part quiet & to myself huh ?

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Belt drive in the works !-good-news-bad-news-jpg  
    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


  17. #37
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    Default Update & lesson learned !

    Here are a couple of pics showing the bearings i refered to above, and another of the first mod to case for the input of driver pulley. This is going to be a one way trip for this gear box. I even buffed off the paint and bondo from the machined sides of box as well the rest of it too then painted it black (all i had for color). I mentioned above about loosing a few balls from my "z" ball nut, now for what i learned. Never use grease on the ball screws unless there is no way whatsoever of chips getting to it ! I took my screw out and cleaned nut finding lots of aluminum fine within. Then i counted all the balls and found that I was short more than three balls. I hustled to the McGuires bearings and got a bag of balls, sized close enough and reloaded the nut. This time i elected to treat the screw with a dry lube coating which won't hold chips or anything else (i hope). I really want to take out the "x" & "y" too but won't at this time. I will plan on replacing them at a later date with "preloaded" nuts. These double circuit nuts are fine for now, but deffinately looser than i'd like. I wish now i'd asked more about them before ordering but had other stuff on my mind. I'll flush the "x" & "y" more with spray brake clean (read dry cleaning fluid) and hope i get them clean enough to last a while. My parts should be here today to assemble the belt drive system, they use the taper lock bushings, one is 1.375 (driven) and the other .9375 if i remember correctly for the driver (motor). I'll spec out the parts list if your interested later. Now I'm bored till I get my phone call of parts ready to pic up !

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Belt drive in the works !-bearings-jpg   Belt drive in the works !-case-clearance-jpg  
    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


  18. #38
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    Cruiser,

    I am having problems coming up with words to show how impressed I am with your work. Needless to say, I am really looking forward reading your next posts.



  19. #39
    Gold Member BobWarfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Cruiser,

    I am having problems coming up with words to show how impressed I am with your work. Needless to say, I am really looking forward reading your next posts.
    Ditto!

    I'm watching with rapt attention on this. A belt drive has been on my mind every time I have to cut aluminum. I honestly haven't had the stones to just rip into the mill and "Git er done" like Cruiser!



    It's gonna be so nice to have those extra rpms we'll all be jealous!

    Best,

    BW



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    Yes it will be very cool. Will be a major improvment. Thats why were here, to improve our mills and make them better than they were supposed to be, not just leaving them cause they (is what they is). Thanks for sharing your project with us cruser. Wish some more guys had some stuff going on. Dave



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Belt drive in the works !

Belt drive in the works !