Has anyone here used a TLOsetter?


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    Default Has anyone here used a TLOsetter?

    I was browsing the Mach3 site and ran across this toolsetter: CNCneeds - Home

    For $90 it could be worth it. I am just wondering if anyone here has used one, and can comment on it. Or any other insights you may have.

    Thanks,

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    I'm sure it works fine, though seems like a lot of money for something you can make yourself in very short order. I made something similar years ago - I milled a pocket into a piece of scrap, milled a lip around the inside edge, and cut a piece of PCB material that just fit into the recess formed by the lip, and glued it in with SuperGlue. Soldered a wire to the copper on the PCB material, and connect that to the PROBE input. If, as seems to happen at time with Mach3, the probe operation fails, an the tool is driven through the PCB material, it simply breaks, doing no harm to the tool. Takes just a few minutes to pop it out, glue in a new piece, and solder the wire.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    I use the passive probe mounted in block with a pad in place of the tip. It has never failed to trip on tool contact. A little more money but setting tool length is fast and simple. I also wrote my own macros to use in a program for non TTS tools.

    I like the tool changer in that video.



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    Quote Originally Posted by mrquacker View Post
    For $90 it could be worth it.
    Thanks,

    looks like marked up chinese stuff
    take a look on ebay , I've seen and inquired about the same thing for 20 bucks


    .

    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........


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    I ordered one yesterday. Larry shipped it the same day, so I should have it next week. I'll report back when I receive it and have a chance to test it. I've got two PCNC1100, if this works I'll get a 2nd unit.



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    dertsap, I can assure you that it is NOT marked up Chinese stuff since I assembled it myself in Florida with components from North America.

    I would be very curious if the eBay versions have the macro, plug directly into the Accessory Jack and have the 0.0005" repeatability.

    If anyone has one of these that could verify that convenience and performance, I would appreciate hearing about it.

    Thanks Squibload - will be looking forward to your comments.



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    Looks pretty interesting to me.

    Normally I locate the work and get work height using the Haimer. Then each tool gets measured and typed in. Automating would be good. What would be the actually work process that might best integrate the Haimer and this TLoffsetter? With the Haimer, of course, the reference point isn't initial contact like it is with actual tools. Is there a good way to deal with that in the provided macro?



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    A lot of people confuse measuring or setting Tool Length Offsets with setting the part Z zero for the actual work. The Haimer may or may not be a good way for setting the part Z zero, although there are other simpler, less costly ways. The TLOsetter is definitely the way to go for setting TLO’s, regarding both cost and automated data entry in the Tool Table.

    What are Tool Length Offsets? Simply they are the relationships (offsets) of all the various tool lengths that you have in your tool table. The beauty of using TLO’s is that you only have to set them one time unless you change a tool in a tool holder. Then for each job that you run now, or in the future, you only have to set the part Z zero once for one tool, any tool, and then as you change from tool to tool while doing that job there is no need to reset Z zero for each tool thanks to the Mach3 software’s use of the data stored in the Tool Table. As you call the tool change you also call the appropriate offset to use, such as M6 T4 G43 H4. Not only does this save a lot time but it also eliminates potential errors. Please let me know if any more clarification is needed on any of the above.



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    I think the point being made here, is that you need a reference tool. In this case, the reference tool would best be the Haimer, so that you can set zero for your Z on your workpiece, and that then being your reference tool length. Since the Haimer isn't zero on point of contact, he was wondering (I think) as to how the TLO handles further pressure on it as you get the Haimer to the z position.

    At least that's how I do it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by tbaker2500 View Post
    I think the point being made here, is that you need a reference tool. In this case, the reference tool would best be the Haimer, so that you can set zero for your Z on your workpiece, and that then being your reference tool length. Since the Haimer isn't zero on point of contact, he was wondering (I think) as to how the TLO handles further pressure on it as you get the Haimer to the z position.

    At least that's how I do it.
    There is no reason to use a Haimer as a "reference tool" when using a TLOSetter. You can use ANY tool as a "reference tool", and you'll get exactly the same result.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Quote Originally Posted by IMT View Post
    I use the passive probe mounted in block with a pad in place of the tip. It has never failed to trip on tool contact. A little more money but setting tool length is fast and simple. I also wrote my own macros to use in a program for non TTS tools.

    I like the tool changer in that video.
    I have a passive probe. In the excitment to try it,(late at night and tired) I failed to check the feed rate. It was at 100% Worked perfect though.



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    I use Ger21's 2010 Screen set for Mach3 and the touch off/tool change macros on my CRP-4848. I was thinking of doing the same on my X3.

    Is there a difference in results or purpose between using Gerry's method and using a TLO tool? They both succeed in determining tool length.

    On my X3 I was going to mount an isolated PCB board (probe is positive) on a piece of HDPE and use that for determining table height.

    CRP-4848 CNC Router, CNC G0463 (Sieg X3) Mill, 9"x20" HF CNC Lathe (current project)


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    Quote Originally Posted by HimyKabibble View Post
    There is no reason to use a Haimer as a "reference tool" when using a TLOSetter. You can use ANY tool as a "reference tool", and you'll get exactly the same result.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    I use drill rod longer than any tool, put in a set screw holder.



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    Quote Originally Posted by BAMCNC.COM View Post
    I use drill rod longer than any tool, put in a set screw holder.
    That is precisely what I do.

    There is, in fact, one small advantage to probing each tool, with the touchplate (a piece of 0.063" thick PCB material in my case), resting on the top of the workpiece - If there is lead error in the Z axis screw, your tool length compensation will be set more accurately, since you'll be measuring very close to the section of the screw that will actually be used when machining. My reference tool is 8" long, and, due to lead error in the screw on my machines knee (I have not yet converted the knee to a ballscrew), when I measure tools off-line, the TLO can be end up off by a few thou with the knee raised to the actual work position. By probing tool length, I rarely see even one thou.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    I use the Tormach dial touch gauge as my reference, and I don't have to waste a toolholder.



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    Undoubtedly the Haimer is a great precision tool for finding edges or Z surfaces, probably the world’s best. But due to it’s designed overrun feature it is probably not the best choice as a Master Tool when setting TLO’s with the TLOsetter since you want to use a tool of a fixed length. Once again, it is best to see the 2 events as distinct operations, 1. setting TLO’s (anytime before setting the part Z zero), and 2. the actual setting of the part Z zero.

    One of the easiest, least costly, and quickest ways to set the part Z zero is to use any previously set and recorded tool from the Tool Table, say tool # 7. Choose a gauge of a known dimension such as a 1-2-3 block or my favorite, the 1.500” tall round fixture that came with the earlier Tormach TTS sets. Call M6 T7 G43 H7 and then jog the tool down to a position just below 1.5” above the work where you will place the gauge on top of the work, try to slip the gauge (1.5” fixture in this case) between the tool and the work, if it doesn’t go either jog up or command the tool up in the MDI page, and try again. You’ll be surprised how close you can get in just a few tries at doing this. It’s always best to move the tool up and try the fit rather than coming down, no broken tools this way. When you barely have clearance measure it with a feeler gauge (yes, old school). Say you are using the 1.5” fixture and you can just get a .012” feeler gauge between the fixture and the tool with the fixture sitting on top of the work, now simply change your Z DRO to 1.512. You have just set part Z zero for all the tools in the Tool Table for this job as long as you enter G43 H[tool offset number) when you change the tools either manually or within a G code program. Hopefully you’ve chosen the first tool in your program to do this and have even saved a little more time.



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    Default Re: Has anyone here used a TLOsetter?

    Quote Originally Posted by HimyKabibble View Post
    That is precisely what I do.

    There is, in fact, one small advantage to probing each tool, with the touchplate (a piece of 0.063" thick PCB material in my case), resting on the top of the workpiece - If there is lead error in the Z axis screw, your tool length compensation will be set more accurately, since you'll be measuring very close to the section of the screw that will actually be used when machining. My reference tool is 8" long, and, due to lead error in the screw on my machines knee (I have not yet converted the knee to a ballscrew), when I measure tools off-line, the TLO can be end up off by a few thou with the knee raised to the actual work position. By probing tool length, I rarely see even one thou.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    I've never physicaly measured a tool yet, I zero with the drill rod, then take it out and tell mach to touch off the entire tool tray, and it goes to work. Tormachs electronic tool setter is withen .0001" over and over when measuring the same tool. It's a very neat setup, although not cheap. My drill rod is probably around 5" long, never measured it. . It's all relative.



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    I measure the Haimer Z-zero length "off-line" once, then use it to touch off the work. It's not that difficult to measure with a height gauge. That won't work well with a tool setter though.

    I built a toolsetter and used it for a while to touch off the whole ATC carousel, but found that off-line measuring worked better for me as I mostly use the same carousel with one or two additions like drills or long tools.



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    Quote Originally Posted by SquibLoad View Post
    I ordered one yesterday. Larry shipped it the same day, so I should have it next week. I'll report back when I receive it and have a chance to test it. I've got two PCNC1100, if this works I'll get a 2nd unit.
    Boy, quick service! Ordered on Friday, rcd on Monday, all the way from FL to CA. Can't beat that.

    Unit looks well made, includes software and instructions, and mounting bolts, which I didn't expect.

    First impressions:
    Spring in the contact switch is pretty heavy. Might be hard on small carbide tools, such as an .023 fret cutting bit I use.
    It certainly won't work with something like a dial indicator which I use for tool#1, and to measure work heights. I guess I was figuring it would be an extremely light spring that would 'float', and trip at the lightest touch of a tool.

    Top of contact area is domed, not flat, making for a height ambiguity of the contact point by quite a bit. One must hit the switch absolutely dead center with the lowest point or tip of the cutting edge, which is placed someplace different on each tool. Easy for a drill, difficult for an endmill, facemill, etc. That means you can't set a specific location to return to for measurement. Each tool will require a bit of jogging to get perfectly lined up, which will have to be done visually. Since this is designed to bolt to the table, it won't be convenient to move the TLO to the proper position under the tool. A large, flat, lightly sprung contact area would be much easier to deal with. At the very least, milling the top button of the switch flat would help. Maybe somehow attaching a small plate instead? Don't see how this will be convenient to use at this point. A small microswitch with a light spring loaded contact plate might work easier.

    I guess these things explain some of the price differences between this version and the tormach.

    We'll see how it works in practice. I hope to get it installed this evening if I have time.



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    Quote Originally Posted by SquibLoad View Post
    Boy, quick service! Ordered on Friday, rcd on Monday, all the way from FL to CA. Can't beat that.

    Unit looks well made, includes software and instructions, and mounting bolts, which I didn't expect.

    First impressions:
    Spring in the contact switch is pretty heavy. Might be hard on small carbide tools, such as an .023 fret cutting bit I use.
    It certainly won't work with something like a dial indicator which I use for tool#1, and to measure work heights. I guess I was figuring it would be an extremely light spring that would 'float', and trip at the lightest touch of a tool.

    Top of contact area is domed, not flat, making for a height ambiguity of the contact point by quite a bit. One must hit the switch absolutely dead center with the lowest point or tip of the cutting edge, which is placed someplace different on each tool. Easy for a drill, difficult for an endmill, facemill, etc. That means you can't set a specific location to return to for measurement. Each tool will require a bit of jogging to get perfectly lined up, which will have to be done visually. Since this is designed to bolt to the table, it won't be convenient to move the TLO to the proper position under the tool. A large, flat, lightly sprung contact area would be much easier to deal with. At the very least, milling the top button of the switch flat would help. Maybe somehow attaching a small plate instead? Don't see how this will be convenient to use at this point. A small microswitch with a light spring loaded contact plate might work easier.

    I guess these things explain some of the price differences between this version and the tormach.

    We'll see how it works in practice. I hope to get it installed this evening if I have time.
    I have the Tormach toolsetter and the Haimer and the same issue with the toolsetter spring being too strong for the Haimer
    The way around this is to measure the length of the Haimer at z zero and then put a piece of drill rod,silver steel or whatever into a TTS holder or collet chuck, whatever you have plenty of (if you use a TTS holder put a shoulder on the bar so it cant slide in to the holder) then machine the end of the bar to the same length as the Haimer at Z Zero.
    This gives you what I call the surrogate Haimer, in practice use the surrogate to touch off on the toolsetter swap it out for the Haimer and zero Z on your job. This way your Haimer is safe when using the toolsetter regardless of what the spring setting is on either.
    I know I have posted this before, but maybe everyone hasn't seen it.
    Will



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Has anyone here used a TLOsetter?

Has anyone here used a TLOsetter?