Shop Sabre CNC router?

[Denny J]

I was just at the ShopSabre facility Friday on my way through to Wisconsin. They took me to the back and let me see the new ball screw setup they are putting on the machines now. When I was up there a few months ago they were using about a 3/4 inch(eyeballing it) screw that turned with the nut being stationary.

They switched to a much heavier screw(1" or more by eyeballing it) and now they are driving the nut while the screw stays stationary.

They said they went from 600IMP to 1200 with this change.

[tmfcwp]

Hi Denny,
The tour of ShopSabre sounds like fun!
Its interesting that you saw the screw so much. Don't forget that every spec of dust you make will also see the screws.
On the Techno machines that we have, The screws are hidden inside a pretty much sealed aluminum housing and they stay very clean, therefore very lubricated for a long time!
I still think the Technos are way ahead of most others!
P.S., ask them to actually cut something for you at 600IPM, let alone 1200IPM.Those numbers sound great in catalogs, but in the real world of wood, 200IPM is pushing it!! Just a thought! Merry Christmas!

[ger21]

P.S., ask them to actually cut something for you at 600IPM, let alone 1200IPM.Those numbers sound great in catalogs, but in the real world of wood, 200IPM is pushing it!!

Not using a ShopSabre, but on our machine we've cut wood at 400ipm every day for almost 10 years now. Most new high end machines will easily cut over 1000ipm with no problems. Guys with $1500 homebuilt mdf machines are cutting close to 200ipm now.

[tmfcwp]

Gerry,
Every day for 10 years huh?
Whatever!

[ger21]

About 9-1/2. We bought it in 1998. OK, not every day. Only 5 days a week.

[Denny J]

Hi Mudall,
We make a variety of products for our customers. From plywood parts to custom cabinet components, to retail items that are sold around the world.
We have a 4896 LC and just got a second machine, a 59120 LC.
They both perform exactly as advertised!
We don't have vacuum tables or tool changers and didn't need all the extra stuff the LCX offers.
We just needed a bare bones accurate machine and for the cost, Techno was our obvious choice!
We bolt a sheet of MDF to the router table, and use drywall screws to hold the sheets in place while cutting so no vacuum is needed.
The vacuum table and tool changer options although good deals were both out of reach money wise for us. We also don't have 3 phase power out here in the sticks, so that would have been another cost for a phase converter.
We used to use Bob-Cad for all of our product, but recently had a major problem with our post processor, and they couldn't be bothered to help us.
7 full days to return our tech help call!!! Too busy selling to more victims!!!
We now use Enroute 3d Pro. It is not as easy to draw in as Bob-Cad, but it works every time!!! Hope this helps. When you call Techno, ask for Tim, and tell them Tom Farmer recomended you call. They will know who I am.
Good luck to your business..

So when you are cutting out cabinet parts, how do you cut through the parts with no vacuum? Are you just onion skinning the sheet and manually removing the rest or are you screwing through each part?

Also, what design program are you using to generate the parts before you export them to enroute or are you drawing everything in enroute?

[tmfcwp]

We use an MDF waste board clamped to the "T" Slot table on our machines.
For production pieces, we have made jigs that clamp the wood in place and index every part exactly the same, we just screw the jig to the MDF.
Large sheets are screwed directly to the MDF, and parts cut out of them.
Enroute has a function called tabs that leave little bridges at the last cut and keep the parts in place. I have tried onion skin cutting, but because wood is never the exact thickness for each board, we use the bridges or free cut some parts.
Contrary to what I have been told about speed of cut,
I have the cabability to cut at rediculous speeds, but have found that for what we make, between the small bit size, hardness of woods used, depth of cut per pass and the need for a clean cut, I will stick with around 200IPM.
Keep in mind that speed is not everything, accuracy and final product finish are what matter. If you factor in the loss of speed due to accelleration in and out of corners and on arcs, the speed you think you are going is not actually the speed you are going! You also lose speed during your rapid travels and plunge points so how fast are you really going?
If you can cut your product faster, Thats awesome.
I go for a nice clean finished part that needs little final sanding.

[JFettig]

Well, since this thread has been rejuvenated, I'll post my .02 on shop sabre....

I got hired to be the CNC expert part time at an engraving and etching company. They already purchased this Shop Sabre router before I was hired..
I'm working for a company where we bought their biggest router, dual heads, dual tool changers, as big as they can get. I agree, they use good rails and ballscrews. Everything else is cut corners and bad design. From the 200w servos to how they mount the rails, ballscrews and everything else. I've been working at this company for a couple months now and we have yet to get a very good part off of this machine. Not to mention the HORRIBLE wiring job they did in these boxes!
They wired ALL "grounds" to AC ground causing ground faults to trip when the box is turned on. I finally rewired the grounds and neutrals so its properly set up. There was a wire going from DC - to AC ground directly as well as AC ground going to terminal blocks that supply their OEM gecko drives. They got their +DC voltage from the power supply then it went back to AC ground. They'd also run 120v to the solenoid for the power draw bar then the "ground"(neutral) back to DC GROUND. This has been such a frustration I finally after hours of being on the phone with them I finally just did it myself.

When you hit the E stop button this machine the axes and spindle stop IF the axes are moving. you can hit the E stop all day if the spindle is running and no axes and it'll keep running. You can turn it on with the E stop pressed.

When a drive faults on a servo, the rest of the motors keep going, woops, there goes 5 tool forks.... did I mention underpowered servos?

My Z axis is acting very strange(I'll bet W would too, spindle 2), it lifts up early and usually drops early, not timed at all.

The gantry shakes real with most motion. Push on either side of the gantry and you have 1/8" deflection without much force.

WINCNC is another story, anyone hook up mach 3 to their machine?

Can you tell I'm frusterated? We've lost a good months worth of production due to this machine. If I had been there before this purchase I would have either built the machine myself(two actually for this price!!!) or bought a used thermwood or similar.

oh... and theres more.
making dimensional parts has also prooved to be nearly impossible... "tweak the resolution, about 2 per 1/32"'....my a**

Jon

[Denny J]

Well, since this thread has been rejuvenated, I'll post my .02 on shop sabre....

I got hired to be the CNC expert part time at an engraving and etching company. They already purchased this Shop Sabre router before I was hired..
I'm working for a company where we bought their biggest router, dual heads, dual tool changers, as big as they can get. I agree, they use good rails and ballscrews. Everything else is cut corners and bad design. From the 200w servos to how they mount the rails, ballscrews and everything else. I've been working at this company for a couple months now and we have yet to get a very good part off of this machine. Not to mention the HORRIBLE wiring job they did in these boxes!
They wired ALL "grounds" to AC ground causing ground faults to trip when the box is turned on. I finally rewired the grounds and neutrals so its properly set up. There was a wire going from DC - to AC ground directly as well as AC ground going to terminal blocks that supply their OEM gecko drives. They got their +DC voltage from the power supply then it went back to AC ground. They'd also run 120v to the solenoid for the power draw bar then the "ground"(neutral) back to DC GROUND. This has been such a frustration I finally after hours of being on the phone with them I finally just did it myself.

When you hit the E stop button this machine the axes and spindle stop IF the axes are moving. you can hit the E stop all day if the spindle is running and no axes and it'll keep running. You can turn it on with the E stop pressed.

When a drive faults on a servo, the rest of the motors keep going, woops, there goes 5 tool forks.... did I mention underpowered servos?

My Z axis is acting very strange(I'll bet W would too, spindle 2), it lifts up early and usually drops early, not timed at all.

The gantry shakes real with most motion. Push on either side of the gantry and you have 1/8" deflection without much force.

WINCNC is another story, anyone hook up mach 3 to their machine?

Can you tell I'm frusterated? We've lost a good months worth of production due to this machine. If I had been there before this purchase I would have either built the machine myself(two actually for this price!!!) or bought a used thermwood or similar.

oh... and theres more.
making dimensional parts has also prooved to be nearly impossible... "tweak the resolution, about 2 per 1/32"'....my a**

Jon

They have a warranty on their machines, why did you not have them fix the problems? That is what they are there for. I know from visiting their shop that they run every machine before it goes out the door so it is interesting that they could make it run with all of those problems and I have seen them run and they cut a precisely as any shopbot to thermwood sized machine I have had cut parts for me. Is there a chance that you messed up some wiring in there while you were doing it yourself that could be causing the cut problems you are having? I am guessing that by now any warranty is void due to tampering.


I'll tell you what, giving you the benefit of the doubt, send me pictures of the wiring problems and files of the things you are trying to cut and when I get back up there the week of the 19th I will compare the pictures of yours to the machines they have there and take pictures of their wiring. I will take pictures of their wiring and see how it compares and I will bring material for them to cut to see if they get the same results. If that sounds fair, just send me the stuff.

BTW your link doesn't work.

[JFettig]

next time I call I'll ask about the warrenty.

Any "tampering" that I did with the wiring was AFTER I had the problems and I fixed most of those problems myself. I've built 3 CNC machines myself.
Most of the fixing I did with them on the phone trying to figure it out, they know most of everything I've done to it and said do it. I have pictures of the wiring before I moved the neutrals from the DC ground to their proper places.

My link(if you mean website url) is down, I switched servers and have been having issues.

Jon

[BensMillwork]

When I was in the market for a cnc, shopsabre gave me the number of a local guy I called him and he let me come out and look at his machine and I'm pretty sure his was '02 or older, because it was when they were still made in the owners original place of business. He was cutting magnesium and some sort of plastic material for a military order .But I remember seing these intricate cuts.I can't tell you what he was making as it was a trade secret of his. But he spoke to me of his Cnc adventures. He told me he traveled in his business a good bit and that he visited the shops of several of the top brands that were affordable, excluding any rack and pinion machines. But to make a long story short, he chose a shopsabre and spoke very highly of his '02 and had no complaints and would do it again.
So early this summer I ordered a 4896.It came in about 6-7 weeks later.We had it together and fired up in about 3 hrs.As an inspector of electrical components in the early '80 on nuclear power plant simulators .The control box for the AC digital servos was neatly wired ,the harness was secured and tie wrapped at all points ,strain reliefs were correctly sized and fitted on connecting cables. I can only attest the a visual inspection since there have been no malfunctions that was cause me to due any further inspections. As to repeatability of dimensional parts + or - .001 on the few parts that I ran and they did not have to be that precise. I mostly due cabinets, some guitar bodies, and v-carving for signs, a few gun stocks and pistol grips.
I use Autocabinets from Routercad another good company and very well priced compared to it's competitors ,Also I use Enroutewood 3 clicks from dfx to nested parts.
Ben
Ben's Millwork

[ShopSabreCNC]

Well, since this thread has been rejuvenated, I'll post my .02 on shop sabre....

I got hired to be the CNC expert part time at an engraving and etching company. They already purchased this Shop Sabre router before I was hired..
I'm working for a company where we bought their biggest router, dual heads, dual tool changers, as big as they can get. I agree, they use good rails and ballscrews. Everything else is cut corners and bad design. From the 200w servos to how they mount the rails, ballscrews and everything else. I've been working at this company for a couple months now and we have yet to get a very good part off of this machine. Not to mention the HORRIBLE wiring job they did in these boxes!
They wired ALL "grounds" to AC ground causing ground faults to trip when the box is turned on. I finally rewired the grounds and neutrals so its properly set up. There was a wire going from DC - to AC ground directly as well as AC ground going to terminal blocks that supply their OEM gecko drives. They got their +DC voltage from the power supply then it went back to AC ground. They'd also run 120v to the solenoid for the power draw bar then the "ground"(neutral) back to DC GROUND. This has been such a frustration I finally after hours of being on the phone with them I finally just did it myself.

When you hit the E stop button this machine the axes and spindle stop IF the axes are moving. you can hit the E stop all day if the spindle is running and no axes and it'll keep running. You can turn it on with the E stop pressed.

When a drive faults on a servo, the rest of the motors keep going, woops, there goes 5 tool forks.... did I mention underpowered servos?

My Z axis is acting very strange(I'll bet W would too, spindle 2), it lifts up early and usually drops early, not timed at all.

The gantry shakes real with most motion. Push on either side of the gantry and you have 1/8" deflection without much force.

WINCNC is another story, anyone hook up mach 3 to their machine?

Can you tell I'm frusterated? We've lost a good months worth of production due to this machine. If I had been there before this purchase I would have either built the machine myself(two actually for this price!!!) or bought a used thermwood or similar.

oh... and theres more.
making dimensional parts has also prooved to be nearly impossible... "tweak the resolution, about 2 per 1/32"'....my a**

Jon

At ShopSabre CNC, we pride ourselves on customer service and support. ShopSabre does everything possible to ensure every machine leaves our facility and operates as designed in our client’s facility.

Over time, improvements are made and technology changes. We are on the cutting edge of CNC with our current configuration. Unfortunately, as time passes and used machines are customized and sold from company to company, we have no control over the condition or modifications that are made along the way. You failed to mention this, but it appears by what you describe that you are working with the used machine that was originally owned by a gentleman that ran it 16+ hours a day 6-7 days a week. This machine, that you state has a “bad design,” produced more than 10k parts a week for years for the Ford Motor Company.

Geckos are a stepper drive that we abandoned five years ago. This machine is over five years old. You say your servo drives are only 200W. You are not even able to discern the difference between a servo and a stepper motor. By the way, you have steppers, and it is measured in ounce inches.

Our stepper motors are a high power custom motor, designed specifically for us. We are higher in power than any of our competitors.

Our Servo drives are 400w and are an A/C digital type, the latest technology. With 200lbs. of cut force at the spindle, it is the most powerful CNC in our price range.

You say that you would have recommended a Thermwood, but I question whether you have any experience with them. Which, by the way, is a machine that costs 3-4 times what we charge for our machine. Our customers have repeatedly replaced their machines with ours.

It appears you build your own machines. You state that you have built Three. We have built over 1000 machines and are in 19 different countries. ShopSabre machines are producing every type of part in every type of material imaginable.

At 1200 inches per minute, we now produce the fastest and most powerful ball screw CNC table under $100k. With repeatability at .001", we have great precision. We will put our components up against any to show we do not "cut corners" as you stated.

Although we would like to try and remedy the situation, you have not been fair and given us the opportunity to do so before posting a negative comment.

Even though you have deemed fit to publish your negative opinions on this forum we are still committed to helping your employer resolve any issues they may need help with.

We at ShopSabre stand behind our machines and we are confident that we manufacture the highest quality CNC under $100k. It is a true value when compared on the market.

If you have any questions, please contact us: www.shopsabre.com