About 9-1/2. We bought it in 1998. OK, not every day. Only 5 days a week.
Gerry
UCCNC 2017 Screenset
[URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]
Mach3 2010 Screenset
[URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]
JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
[URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]
(Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)
Originally Posted by tmfcwp
So when you are cutting out cabinet parts, how do you cut through the parts with no vacuum? Are you just onion skinning the sheet and manually removing the rest or are you screwing through each part?
Also, what design program are you using to generate the parts before you export them to enroute or are you drawing everything in enroute?
We use an MDF waste board clamped to the "T" Slot table on our machines.
For production pieces, we have made jigs that clamp the wood in place and index every part exactly the same, we just screw the jig to the MDF.
Large sheets are screwed directly to the MDF, and parts cut out of them.
Enroute has a function called tabs that leave little bridges at the last cut and keep the parts in place. I have tried onion skin cutting, but because wood is never the exact thickness for each board, we use the bridges or free cut some parts.
Contrary to what I have been told about speed of cut,
I have the cabability to cut at rediculous speeds, but have found that for what we make, between the small bit size, hardness of woods used, depth of cut per pass and the need for a clean cut, I will stick with around 200IPM.
Keep in mind that speed is not everything, accuracy and final product finish are what matter. If you factor in the loss of speed due to accelleration in and out of corners and on arcs, the speed you think you are going is not actually the speed you are going! You also lose speed during your rapid travels and plunge points so how fast are you really going?
If you can cut your product faster, Thats awesome.
I go for a nice clean finished part that needs little final sanding.
Well, since this thread has been rejuvenated, I'll post my .02 on shop sabre....
I got hired to be the CNC expert part time at an engraving and etching company. They already purchased this Shop Sabre router before I was hired..
I'm working for a company where we bought their biggest router, dual heads, dual tool changers, as big as they can get. I agree, they use good rails and ballscrews. Everything else is cut corners and bad design. From the 200w servos to how they mount the rails, ballscrews and everything else. I've been working at this company for a couple months now and we have yet to get a very good part off of this machine. Not to mention the HORRIBLE wiring job they did in these boxes!
They wired ALL "grounds" to AC ground causing ground faults to trip when the box is turned on. I finally rewired the grounds and neutrals so its properly set up. There was a wire going from DC - to AC ground directly as well as AC ground going to terminal blocks that supply their OEM gecko drives. They got their +DC voltage from the power supply then it went back to AC ground. They'd also run 120v to the solenoid for the power draw bar then the "ground"(neutral) back to DC GROUND. This has been such a frustration I finally after hours of being on the phone with them I finally just did it myself.
When you hit the E stop button this machine the axes and spindle stop IF the axes are moving. you can hit the E stop all day if the spindle is running and no axes and it'll keep running. You can turn it on with the E stop pressed.
When a drive faults on a servo, the rest of the motors keep going, woops, there goes 5 tool forks.... did I mention underpowered servos?
My Z axis is acting very strange(I'll bet W would too, spindle 2), it lifts up early and usually drops early, not timed at all.
The gantry shakes real with most motion. Push on either side of the gantry and you have 1/8" deflection without much force.
WINCNC is another story, anyone hook up mach 3 to their machine?
Can you tell I'm frusterated? We've lost a good months worth of production due to this machine. If I had been there before this purchase I would have either built the machine myself(two actually for this price!!!) or bought a used thermwood or similar.
oh... and theres more.
making dimensional parts has also prooved to be nearly impossible... "tweak the resolution, about 2 per 1/32"'....my a**
Jon
They have a warranty on their machines, why did you not have them fix the problems? That is what they are there for. I know from visiting their shop that they run every machine before it goes out the door so it is interesting that they could make it run with all of those problems and I have seen them run and they cut a precisely as any shopbot to thermwood sized machine I have had cut parts for me. Is there a chance that you messed up some wiring in there while you were doing it yourself that could be causing the cut problems you are having? I am guessing that by now any warranty is void due to tampering.
I'll tell you what, giving you the benefit of the doubt, send me pictures of the wiring problems and files of the things you are trying to cut and when I get back up there the week of the 19th I will compare the pictures of yours to the machines they have there and take pictures of their wiring. I will take pictures of their wiring and see how it compares and I will bring material for them to cut to see if they get the same results. If that sounds fair, just send me the stuff.
BTW your link doesn't work.
next time I call I'll ask about the warrenty.
Any "tampering" that I did with the wiring was AFTER I had the problems and I fixed most of those problems myself. I've built 3 CNC machines myself.
Most of the fixing I did with them on the phone trying to figure it out, they know most of everything I've done to it and said do it. I have pictures of the wiring before I moved the neutrals from the DC ground to their proper places.
My link(if you mean website url) is down, I switched servers and have been having issues.
Jon
I looked at a '02 machine
When I was in the market for a cnc, shopsabre gave me the number of a local guy I called him and he let me come out and look at his machine and I'm pretty sure his was '02 or older, because it was when they were still made in the owners original place of business. He was cutting magnesium and some sort of plastic material for a military order .But I remember seing these intricate cuts.I can't tell you what he was making as it was a trade secret of his. But he spoke to me of his Cnc adventures. He told me he traveled in his business a good bit and that he visited the shops of several of the top brands that were affordable, excluding any rack and pinion machines. But to make a long story short, he chose a shopsabre and spoke very highly of his '02 and had no complaints and would do it again.
So early this summer I ordered a 4896.It came in about 6-7 weeks later.We had it together and fired up in about 3 hrs.As an inspector of electrical components in the early '80 on nuclear power plant simulators .The control box for the AC digital servos was neatly wired ,the harness was secured and tie wrapped at all points ,strain reliefs were correctly sized and fitted on connecting cables. I can only attest the a visual inspection since there have been no malfunctions that was cause me to due any further inspections. As to repeatability of dimensional parts + or - .001 on the few parts that I ran and they did not have to be that precise. I mostly due cabinets, some guitar bodies, and v-carving for signs, a few gun stocks and pistol grips.
I use Autocabinets from Routercad another good company and very well priced compared to it's competitors ,Also I use Enroutewood 3 clicks from dfx to nested parts.
Ben
Ben's Millwork
At ShopSabre CNC, we pride ourselves on customer service and support. ShopSabre does everything possible to ensure every machine leaves our facility and operates as designed in our client’s facility.
Over time, improvements are made and technology changes. We are on the cutting edge of CNC with our current configuration. Unfortunately, as time passes and used machines are customized and sold from company to company, we have no control over the condition or modifications that are made along the way. You failed to mention this, but it appears by what you describe that you are working with the used machine that was originally owned by a gentleman that ran it 16+ hours a day 6-7 days a week. This machine, that you state has a “bad design,” produced more than 10k parts a week for years for the Ford Motor Company.
Geckos are a stepper drive that we abandoned five years ago. This machine is over five years old. You say your servo drives are only 200W. You are not even able to discern the difference between a servo and a stepper motor. By the way, you have steppers, and it is measured in ounce inches.
Our stepper motors are a high power custom motor, designed specifically for us. We are higher in power than any of our competitors.
Our Servo drives are 400w and are an A/C digital type, the latest technology. With 200lbs. of cut force at the spindle, it is the most powerful CNC in our price range.
You say that you would have recommended a Thermwood, but I question whether you have any experience with them. Which, by the way, is a machine that costs 3-4 times what we charge for our machine. Our customers have repeatedly replaced their machines with ours.
It appears you build your own machines. You state that you have built Three. We have built over 1000 machines and are in 19 different countries. ShopSabre machines are producing every type of part in every type of material imaginable.
At 1200 inches per minute, we now produce the fastest and most powerful ball screw CNC table under $100k. With repeatability at .001", we have great precision. We will put our components up against any to show we do not "cut corners" as you stated.
Although we would like to try and remedy the situation, you have not been fair and given us the opportunity to do so before posting a negative comment.
Even though you have deemed fit to publish your negative opinions on this forum we are still committed to helping your employer resolve any issues they may need help with.
We at ShopSabre stand behind our machines and we are confident that we manufacture the highest quality CNC under $100k. It is a true value when compared on the market.
If you have any questions, please contact us: www.shopsabre.com
Hi Ben
How is that routercad package working for you? Do you have the AI module and either of the dovetail drawer or mdf door modules?
Hello
Hello Denny ,yes the new Illustrator is great it has a stock set of commercial cabinets as well as standard kitchen with beaded inset,the you can modify any of those or just using the cabinet builder do the really custom stuff.Then say.... if your doing a job where you don't need room drawings, you can use the control center to just enter the sizes and it will output that to enroute and use the auto tool path creation and your done.I have the Drawercad program which is pretty cool to.They keep upgrading the program so fast they don't have a manual ,you go online and Carl the tech guts sets up your enroute and tool strategies and gives you a lesson.They have some quick start guides ,but because the programs are fairly new it would be a waste to do a full blown manual as the program keeps evolving and becoming more powerful. Did you order a router ?
Ben
Not yet. Getting very close
So you mean you bought a pre owned 5 year old router and you are are bashing the company about things that were done to the machine by the previous owner?
Sad
Starting a Shop
Denny, I saw in a earlier post that you were wanting tips on starting a business.
What kind of business are you wanting to start? I guess it involves a cnc and I suppose cabinets since you were asking about routercad. Let me know maybe I can help. I do a little of everything Saw lumber with a woodmizer sawmill, kiln dry the lumber ,pull out anything that is figured and market that in a different manor targeting guitar makers ,I also do custom kitchens and built ends ,and furniture although I don't get much of a call for that these days ,I'm developing highly figured gunstocks and pistol grips, and branching out into signs and graphic designs using the cnc in as many ways as possible.As far as the earlier post that prompted me to post today in the first place, I can't imagine a shopsabre performing like what he described, unless ,like you said, " They bought it used and someone had abused it and worked it over.But that does not sound like what he is saying.If it were a new one maybe someone tampered with it at some point in time to intentionally make it malfunction.I've had several people look at mine who happen to be in the shop buying lumber, one who runs a large shop with cnc's and they could not believe the quality and components used for the price, especially when they compare it to the much more expensive units they had purchased.
I have relatives near Petersburg West Va.have you ever been there?
Well gotta run ...school called and my daughter missed the bus !
Ben
Hi Ben
I think the post you saw had to do with a machine shop in my town whose owner just passed away. I am the mayor of the town and we wanted to keep the business going rather than have it parted out,which we were able to do.
I own a Custom Cabinetry business. We do mostly residential but also some commercial and we want to do more euro cabinets along with some 3d carvings,newels etc. and solid surface. We have been looking at the CNC for a long time, but really got hung up on software. We currently use KCDW and Ecabinets but want something with more flexibility in design than KCDW offers and I am not that high on Ecabinets.
I had a demo with Tony on Routercad and it seemed pretty good, but then there was another shop who had bought it that had several problems with it and in talking to him I started to lean towards Cabinetvision manufacturing.
I would like to talk to you about the gunstocks. I am an avid hunter and would like to look at producing some unique stocks for my guns.
I agree with your assessment on the SS router. They are well built and from what I see getting better all the time.
I apologize
Hello, I'm very sorry I got confused on that post .The main difference... a guy who I talked to on the phone the other day is that cabinetvision wanted 30K to upgrade his standard version to the full cnc version. If you have a problem with the software Carl will work it out and Tony is a great guy as well.The problem most people have is there is not a full blown manual with tutorials and almost every other month or so they are adding features and correcting any odd problems that might come up.I'll send you a picture of my spalted maple.
Yes, I hunt up in Pendleton County up on Spruce Mtn.
Thanks,
Ben
Does Routercad give you the ability to do renderings of rooms or just 2d line drawings?
I think the thing that I like the most about CV is that you can choose the hardware that you want to use and it automatically associates that hardware to the door and also automatically places the system holes on the panel. For instance, if you were doing a custom closet and wanted a clothes pole, a slide out drawer and a shelf, the program just puts holes where you want them VS the swiss cheese 32mm line boring pattern. Plus I am set up to go to my customers with the presentations and it is very important to me to be able to show them visually in 3D what the room will look like just as I can in KCDW and I feel that going back to 2d would not give me that.
I live in Southern MN. Not far from the Iowa border
I agree, perspective view are a must have
I was just asking Carl about perspective views just yesterday.That is already added on the version that will be released in a matter of days.Similar to the 3d I used in Autocad with cadkit.Cadkit used autocad as the engine and it provided all the libraries doors and wall that could be resized and so on then just like in autocad you could just point to a spot on the floor where your view would originate then lines shot out from that point at an angle and you would select a back and a front and it would set your perspective view to capture every thing between the two lines.So you could in effect block out an island if you wanted an un-obscured view.But there coming along if there is a feature that they have overlooked and it's a good one they will add it in.If you do go with cabinet vision Enroutewood would work as the cam portion.It has cabinetvison as one of the options that you set to import the layered DFX file directly from cabinet vision and nest all the parts and create your toolpath all in just 3 clicks.
Wow, I sure hope you didn't sell us a used router!
on the X Y Z and W, there are 200 watt AC servos(not 400 like you say). The rotary tables have steppers and use a drive similar to gecko (tormach's gecko knockoff?) I can post pics if you like!
1200 IPM? The max feed rate YOU set it up at is 600IPM. And its repeating to about 1/8".....
Haven't given you a fair chance to remedy this? Hows 2 months? I've spent countless hours on the phone with your tech support and it is still not producing parts with any repeatability.
We're out 2 months of production because of all the work we've had to do to get it working as well as it is..
NO we did not buy a 5 year old router.
Jon
NO! READ POST ABOVE.
Hello
Where did the '02 router come from .It was there when you got hired, we understand that part.Did your company have for 5 years ? or did they buy it used?
Thank you,
Ben
Posting Permissions
Reply with Quote