NEW PATRIOT VFD

[instructor37]

I've been corresponding with JT about the new machine for 2010. We are considering upgrading our units to VFD drives.
For 2010 the machines have been re-designed
1. Lathe and mill spindle motors are 3 phase Variable Frequency Drives
2. All power feeds and threading are done by stepper motors- no more gearboxes
3. Cross slide travel is increased to 12"
By eliminating the gearboxes and the belt change mechanisms for the spindles, JT says over 300 parts and 100# have been removed from the machine.
I believe the VFD drives can be controlled by Mach III input for speed changes on the fly as well.
There are a bunch of other smaller changes too.
Attached are a couple photos JT sent me.

[Fast01]

That looks real nice. I called JT last month because when I was changing the change gears to change the feed rate the keyed sleeves basically crumbled in my hands. He said that that has been a problem in the past and if I send him the pieces he would make up some new ones for me, but I'm lazy and never did. I've got CNC, so I figured I'd just use the jog for power feed if I'm running manual, but I really like this set-up and would love to upgrade. Unfortunately, I can't really justify it right now.

[GITERDUN]

I've been corresponding with JT about the new machine for 2010. We are considering upgrading our units to VFD drives.
For 2010 the machines have been re-designed
1. Lathe and mill spindle motors are 3 phase Variable Frequency Drives
2. All power feeds and threading are done by stepper motors- no more gearboxes
3. Cross slide travel is increased to 12"
By eliminating the gearboxes and the belt change mechanisms for the spindles, JT says over 300 parts and 100# have been removed from the machine.
I believe the VFD drives can be controlled by Mach III input for speed changes on the fly as well.
There are a bunch of other smaller changes too.
Attached are a couple photos JT sent me.

I called Shoptask about the system and the controller is a solid state unit that converts single phase to 3 phase. They say that this system is better than DC drive because the motors run at full voltage all the time and the speed is varied by changing the frequency. The controller works with either 110 or 220 volt single phase input.

[bowman1964]

well i have one on order now for 3 months, the units will require 220v 20 amp circuit to operate. i speak to JT about once a week. i was wiring my shop this past weekend. last i told they are out on the water heading in on a container ship.

[dgapilot]

Has anyone asked JT if he is going to offer an upgrade kit for older machines? I'd like to upgrade my Bridgemill, but not sure I can justify the expense. I'm set up for CNC, so all I'm interested in is the VFD drives and spindle motors.

[TomB]

I called Shoptask about the system and the controller is a solid state unit that converts single phase to 3 phase. They say that this system is better than DC drive because the motors run at full voltage all the time and the speed is varied by changing the frequency. The controller works with either 110 or 220 volt single phase input.

I have just finished installing two VFDs on my ski mountain. They are way bigger than we are talking here (200 and 300 hp) but the theory is the same. These devices are the best thing that ever happened to motor control. Internally they convert any power in to DC then use SRCs to build an AC output at whatever frequency you select. Typically they adjust the voltage to keep the current about constant as the motor speed is varied. Because motor torque is proportional to winding current motor torque can be managed as the motor is slowed. I got in trouble on another forum for saying it is constant torque. Think of it as quite close to that for most of the range (it’s actually a quadratic that is somewhat adjustable.)

The key point is that the user, designer or the controller can adjust the motor performance to the load. In my case being able to run the motor at 57 Hz rather than 60 Hz matched the motor torque to the pump torque and that will save big bucks. I expect to pay for the VFDs with electric savings in less than two seasons. I plan to convert my TriPower to VFDs as soon as I get a chance (for me that means in the spring when business ends for the year.)

[bowman1964]

The only concern i am having right now is making sure the new machine will cut threads reliable. Without have some type of gear set keeping the spindle and feed constant.
I totally understand how the stepper will be a great feature to the machine for the feed, But without some way to keep the spindle at the exact same speed I don’t see how I can cut threads reliable. And you will only be able to cut threads using a computer program to control it. no more manual control as I can see it. a stepper will keep the feed the same each pass ,but what keeps the VFD at the precise same speed so each pass will stay in the center of the thread you are cutting.

Am I looking at this wrong?

[instructor37]

The only concern i am having right now is making sure the new machine will cut threads reliable. Without have some type of gear set keeping the spindle and feed constant.
I totally understand how the stepper will be a great feature to the machine for the feed, But without some way to keep the spindle at the exact same speed I don’t see how I can cut threads reliable. And you will only be able to cut threads using a computer program to control it. no more manual control as I can see it. a stepper will keep the feed the same each pass ,but what keeps the VFD at the precise same speed so each pass will stay in the center of the thread you are cutting.

Am I looking at this wrong?

The way I understand it is that the lathe spindle has an optical sensor, and the MachIII software starts each pass when it receives a signal from this sensor. In this way, each pass is always started at the same rotational position of the spindle. Combined with the programmed start stop position of the carriage, you will always go through the same pass. I would guess that MachIII also adjusts the stepper speed as the spindle slows down under load, also getting the signal from the optical sensor.

[bowman1964]

Well i hope you are right, i have alot of threading to do when my machine arrives.
now one more good thing with the new model is since they are using steppers for the power feeds. i would think i would not need any other steppers to set it up for full cnc. this should make it less exspenive to convert it to full cnc control.

[gearhead dan]

Hi All,
I just received my 2010 Patriot with the VFD drives. I'd like to compare notes/observations with those of you who own one too. A couple questions off the bat: What amp rating are the stepper motors? Also, the manual I received is for the older system and has no instructions for operating the VFD keypad. Did anyone receive updated instructions? Lastly I'm wondering how easily the mill column can be raised/lowered using the motor drive. From the manual it looks like one component that was eliminated was the column height lever.

[bowman1964]

Hi All,
I just received my 2010 Patriot with the VFD drives. I'd like to compare notes/observations with those of you who own one too. A couple questions off the bat: What amp rating are the stepper motors? Also, the manual I received is for the older system and has no instructions for operating the VFD keypad. Did anyone receive updated instructions? Lastly I'm wondering how easily the mill column can be raised/lowered using the motor drive. From the manual it looks like one component that was eliminated was the column height lever.

well i asked john last week on the amp rating and i want to say he told me 3amp steppers were on order. i take it you didnt order ball screws? i spoke to john yesterday and mine was waiting on the right ball screws, seams they sent him right hand instead of left hand thread.

and congragulations

please post a picture of your new toy.

last week john was waiting on decals.did yours have the new 2010 decals on it or is john sending them out later to you?

[instructor37]

Hi All,
I just received my 2010 Patriot with the VFD drives. I'd like to compare notes/observations with those of you who own one too. A couple questions off the bat: What amp rating are the stepper motors? Also, the manual I received is for the older system and has no instructions for operating the VFD keypad. Did anyone receive updated instructions? Lastly I'm wondering how easily the mill column can be raised/lowered using the motor drive. From the manual it looks like one component that was eliminated was the column height lever.

I spoke to JT about the upgrades and he said the factory has not yet supplied him with a printed VFD manual, but he does have them in PDF form.
Also the factory is behind on the new exploded views of the machine, so the shop manuals are not finished. Those will be mailed along with the printed VFD manuals.