2011 PATRIOT UPGRADES

[instructor37]

I was talking to JT about doing some mods to our machines and he has already got the jump on me for most of them. The new machines now come with P 4 anti backlash ballscrews on X,Y and Z axes standard. They have moved the ball screw to the center of the bed on the X axis to reduce table rock. In addition, they have contracted out the gib strip production to another factory and all the gibs are ground for flatness. He says that in tests, they can easily hold 0.001" repeatablility. All the new machines come equipped with the stepper Gecko drives and Mach III software, but in certain instances they will remove the CNC for those who want to install their own systems. Spindle drives are by VFD inverter and 1HP motors with capability of controlling start/stop, spindle speed and forward-reverse through Mach III. Mach III can also be calibrated to read the spindle rpm on screen. Threading is also done through Mach III via a sensor on the lathe spindle. For appearance sake, all the sheet metal parts are now powder coated.

[wormwood]

I recently emailed JT about the same things, my biggest gripe was the X axis design. The centering ballscrew would be a great mod, though I'm still unclear how it would be sold as an upgrade? (e.g. complete kit, plans with instructions, etc.)
I didn't hear anything on the gib strips though & I've spent about 2 weeks getting the X axis gib straight.
Now if JT would either counter-balance the whole upper assy. or go with whoever came up with the gas spring idea. I think that would be one nice machine!!!
You mentioned the VFD inverter control system interfacing with MACH III in all motions & directions. Are the earlier machines not capable of that?

Wormwood

[smallblock]

I recently emailed JT about the same things, my biggest gripe was the X axis design. The centering ballscrew would be a great mod, though I'm still unclear how it would be sold as an upgrade? (e.g. complete kit, plans with instructions, etc.)
I didn't hear anything on the gib strips though & I've spent about 2 weeks getting the X axis gib straight.
Now if JT would either counter-balance the whole upper assy. or go with whoever came up with the gas spring idea. I think that would be one nice machine!!!
You mentioned the VFD inverter control system interfacing with MACH III in all motions & directions. Are the earlier machines not capable of that?

Wormwood

JT told me, that they simply took a standard machine casting and had a channel milled out of the center to install the ball screw and then fabricated a new mount in the center of the X axis carriage. Doesn't sound to complex, except for the disassembly of the machine and finding someone with a big mill to do the woork.
The mill head can be balanced with an automotive gas strut they use on hatchbacks. Its a simple mount and helps to raise the head and puts some resistance on the down motion. Just find one with about 150-200# rating and at least 10" stroke.

[instructor37]

I was talking to JT about doing some mods to our machines and he has already got the jump on me for most of them. The new machines now come with P 4 anti backlash ballscrews on X,Y and Z axes standard. They have moved the ball screw to the center of the bed on the X axis to reduce table rock. In addition, they have contracted out the gib strip production to another factory and all the gibs are ground for flatness. He says that in tests, they can easily hold 0.001" repeatablility. All the new machines come equipped with the stepper Gecko drives and Mach III software, but in certain instances they will remove the CNC for those who want to install their own systems. Spindle drives are by VFD inverter and 1HP motors with capability of controlling start/stop, spindle speed and forward-reverse through Mach III. Mach III can also be calibrated to read the spindle rpm on screen. Threading is also done through Mach III via a sensor on the lathe spindle. For appearance sake, all the sheet metal parts are now powder coated.

OOPS!!
I just got an e-mail from JT. I misunderstood about the center mount ball screws- he has a prototype in testing now, but the production models will not be done until later. The factory engineers wanted to increase the casting thickness and web strength to compensate for the channel cut down the center. The current machines are all equipped with the anti backlash ball screws, CNC, VFD drives and powder coated finish, but the X ball screw is still mounted on the front apron of the machine. JT says the new ball screws are 20MM diameter - about 50% larger than the old style, which significantly reduces table rock on the front mounted screw.
Sorry for any confusion I caused.

[wormwood]

Smallblock,
That makes sense on the X axis & I agree they should increase the thickness of the cast the 2008 Patriot casting is quite a bit thicker as well the bottom is flat. Whereas the 2010 model lean with the feet built into the casting. It the nature of product refinement and controlling your costs. From what I'm gathering I don't think you'd be able to modify an existing Patriot without purchasing a new bed. Additionally all my home, limit switches are mounted under the compound.... Oh well.
I have a couple of 75lbs. gas springs that I'm mounting (it says 0335N on the spring) on the patriot. It may not be exact rating to zero out the weight but close enough to take the flex out. It's the 1/2 steel plate table were making that I'm hoping will allow deeper cuts without machine bucking & fussing so much..

Wormwood

[smallblock]

Smallblock,
That makes sense on the X axis & I agree they should increase the thickness of the cast the 2008 Patriot casting is quite a bit thicker as well the bottom is flat. Whereas the 2010 model lean with the feet built into the casting. It the nature of product refinement and controlling your costs. From what I'm gathering I don't think you'd be able to modify an existing Patriot without purchasing a new bed. Additionally all my home, limit switches are mounted under the compound.... Oh well.
I have a couple of 75lbs. gas springs that I'm mounting (it says 0335N on the spring) on the patriot. It may not be exact rating to zero out the weight but close enough to take the flex out. It's the 1/2 steel plate table were making that I'm hoping will allow deeper cuts without machine bucking & fussing so much..

Wormwood

I've been rolling this around in my head for a while. I know another shop that would machine out the bed center for about 150.00. The only problem is you have to take the machine apart and then hope they get the job done without a lot of delays. I think the castings are plenty strong as-is, but you never know until you try. The other option would be to just add another lead screw to the back side of the casting and link it to the front screw with a timing belt. This would give you the equal drive to reduce table rock and it could be done without any machine dis-assembly. It seems that every time I decide to get going on the idea another project shows up.

[wormwood]

I thought if the gib was even an inch longer its effect would be exponential. Guess I'll have to pass on the centered X axis. I got a back log of things to do & it's already starting to warm up around here...

Finally, got the table finished!!! It's 1/2" plate 62"x27" & 2" sq. tubing with mdf for shelving. Its heavy but stable, now to put everything back together....

[smallblock]

I thought if the gib was even an inch longer its effect would be exponential. Guess I'll have to pass on the centered X axis. I got a back log of things to do & it's already starting to warm up around here...

Finally, got the table finished!!! It's 1/2" plate 62"x27" & 2" sq. tubing with mdf for shelving. Its heavy but stable, now to put everything back together....

Nice table- be careful that it doesn't pull the bed out of alignment when you bolt the machine down. Theres not much flex in a 1/2" plate. BTW- I see another Patriot in the background of your picture-

[dan10400]

Looking solid. How much did your material costs run on the square tubing and 1/2" plate? Do you have any specific plans for the bridgemill support?

[wormwood]

Smallblock,
You don't miss anything, do you? This 1/2" plate is crowned about .025-.030" along the length of the ways. Fortunately its flat from front to back. I imagine we created it or exacerbated the exist crown when we welded the plate to the legs. In any event we'll have to shim the bridgeport side legs between the plate. I think pretty much any deflection that you removed by bolting it down would cause the bed to crack & fail eventually. The cast doesn't have the ductility or elongation that the steel plate has. If that's not right please let me know.

The other Patriot is a 2008 that I tore down, cleaned, powder coated, & converted to DC drives, then reassembled. The powder coat oven wasn't big enough to cook the front X axis guard or the mill belt cover. Long story short, I had another crisis to tend to & once that was done, JT had introduced the 2010 Patriot CNC & well, I couldn't resist.... So I figure I'll sell the 2008 at some point, just haven't really pushed to sell it yet. I'm able to compare the different year models side by side which is really handy at times.

The materials for the table? I traded a couple of condemned aluminum propellers for the plate so you could estimate ~$70 he might have got for scrap aluminum. The 2"x2"x.120" tubing was $140 for 2 sticks 48ft. total. It's not bad but not that great, I could have done better if was more patient.

The Bridgeport support on the end, yeah we're gonna get that done this weekend. Post some more pics. when we're done.

I found this pics. of the plate on my iPhone, it shows the plate hanging from a hoist just after I got it home. It hard to see any crowning on it anywhere. Btw we did check the bottom of the cast & it is flat along the feet of the bed.

Wormwood

[pkelecy]

OOPS!!
I just got an e-mail from JT. I misunderstood about the center mount ball screws- he has a prototype in testing now, but the production models will not be done until later...

Hi All, -My first post in this forum. Interested in the Patriot for use in a small home shop. While reviewing threads on this model I saw the above. Any idea when this new and improved model will be out? Sounds like it's worth waiting for.

One other question. Given that the Patriot is a $5k machine (on sale and before any accessories or tooling) it's not far off from a Tormach 770, Novakon, Syil X5 or similar high end CNC hobby mills. Any thoughts on why it would be a better choice?

Thanks for any feedback!

[smallblock]

Hi All, -My first post in this forum. Interested in the Patriot for use in a small home shop. While reviewing threads on this model I saw the above. Any idea when this new and improved model will be out? Sounds like it's worth waiting for.

One other question. Given that the Patriot is a $5k machine (on sale and before any accessories or tooling) it's not far off from a Tormach 770, Novakon, Syil X5 or similar high end CNC hobby mills. Any thoughts on why it would be a better choice?

Thanks for any feedback!

Waiting just depends on how urgent you are about getting started. As far as the price comparison goes, you are off by quite a bit. If you read those other forums you will find that any of those mills will be in the 10-12K range by the time you get up and running. Then you only have a mill- add a 17 X 30 CNC lathe to the equation and you will double that cost.
The Shopmaster is a bit smaller mill wise than a Tormach, but much bigger in the lathe function than their duality upgrade.