Potential Shopmaster Patriot Customer on the Fence

[dan10400]

Hello,

I am considering a 2010 ShopMaster Patriot and wanted to solicit some feedback
on this, because I am wavering a bit. I am primarily interested in from a hobby
perspective - have some limited experience on knee mills and lathes (Jet). What
I find interesting in the Patriot is the potential for space savings and the cnc option
(I have no experience with this, but am a software developer by trade and have
been itching to dink around).

So some general questions about the ShopMaster (and combo machines in general)
is the ability to get accuracy out of them. It seems they lack the ability to tram
the mill head. The fact that the ways are used for both the mill and the lathe would
seem to conflict how to adjust both the mill and the lathe as well. Can someone
enlighten me a bit here? I have searched around to no avail.

WRT the CNC capabilities of the Shopmaster, any comments here? Can it be used
in the manual mode as well with this option?

Any general comments regarding the quality of the machines now that they are being
manufactured in ISO-certified plants? Anybody check the tolerances as published?
Maybe ShopMaster does before sending out?

If anyone is in the SF bay area (or thereabouts) willing to share a peek and experiences,
it would be much appreciated.

Regards,

--Dan

[Jim_V]

I haven't had mine for very long, but when I first got it I couldn't machine anything without horrible vibrations. Luckily, all it turned out to be was the gib strip on the x axis had a real low spot. Once I sanded it down flat, vibrations went away, so everything is good now. As far as the accuracy, I'm still lacking a few essential measuring tools, so I won't be able to check for a while. I'm also researching some of the different cad cam programs, so I won't be cutting parts by way of cnc for a few more weeks. It may be a while, but I'll post back as soon as I do.

[instructor37]

Originally Posted by dan10400 Hello, I am considering a 2010 ShopMaster Patriot and wanted to solicit some feedback on this, because I am wavering a bit. I am primarily interested in from a hobby perspective - have some limited experience on knee mills and lathes (Jet). What I find interesting in the Patriot is the potential for space savings and the cnc option The space saving was a major factor in our decision to buy the Patriots. To get a 17 X 30 lathe and a 19 X 20 mill all in a 3 X 5 space makes it great for classroom or garage use. (I have no experience with this, but am a software developer by trade and have been itching to dink around). So some general questions about the ShopMaster (and combo machines in general) is the ability to get accuracy out of them. It seems they lack the ability to tram the mill head. The fact that the ways are used for both the mill and the lathe would seem to conflict how to adjust both the mill and the lathe as well. Can someone enlighten me a bit here? I have searched around to no avail. Tramming is pretty straightforward- the mill is trammed by shimming under the 3/4" steel plate that holds the 4 columns. We did not have to do anything with the lathe portion, but it has 4 bolts that hold the headstock casting to the bed, so adjustment looks pretty straightforward. There are a couple of guys who have posted nice detailed descriptions of tramming on the Shoptask delphi forum and also somewhere on this forum as well. WRT the CNC capabilities of the Shopmaster, any comments here? Can it be used in the manual mode as well with this option? That's another reason we went with the Patriot. They have designed it to be used manually without interfering with CNC. All the other 3 in 1 units we looked at lost most of the manual functions when converted to CNC. Even a lot of the dedicated separates have this problem. Any general comments regarding the quality of the machines now that they are being manufactured in ISO-certified plants? Anybody check the tolerances as published? Maybe ShopMaster does before sending out? I would describe the machine quality as good. The castings are heavy and fine grained. The handles are rugged, which is a plus when students get a hold of them. I would say that you would have to step up to a lot more money to find a machine with a significant improvement in general quality. Shopmaster does a pretty thorough inspection on the machines before they are shipped, but realistically, they will still require some final adjustment and tramming after they are set up and levelled in their final position. Regards, --Dan

Overall, I think they are a good value for the dollar, especially for entry level work- to get higher precision, you will most likely have to invest in a seperate CNC mill such as a Tormach and maybe one of the other Chinese CNC lathes- but your costs will go up by a factor of 4 or 5 and your space reuirements will be at least triple.

[MrBracket]

For the money, they are hard to beat. You can machine just about anything, so long as it fits in the machine. The biggest thing to remember is that they don't have much mass to them.. Therefore, you can't take very big cuts. You say you need something from a hobby perspective, they are great for that. I have the Tri-Power machine, but it is set up like the newer Patriot. In fact, I'm gonna upgrade to the newer drive motors next. I have the CNC and DRO on mine and use them both.

Here are some pics to the most involved project I've done on mine: Tripple Clamps for a custom motorcycle I built.

[turboman]

Hi everyone,
Please forgive the anger, but I have a great deal of experience with Shoptask, both the machines and the company. They are garbage, the owner is trying to sell the company (he solicited me, among others) and they require a great deal of work right out of the box. They will hold nowhere near the .001 tolerance they claim. If you really want one and are willing to take the time to message it (extensively!) buy one used!!! Just a friendly warning!

[jdclark]

Originally Posted by MrBracket For the money, they are hard to beat. You can machine just about anything, so long as it fits in the machine. The biggest thing to remember is that they don't have much mass to them.. Therefore, you can't take very big cuts. You say you need something from a hobby perspective, they are great for that. I have the Tri-Power machine, but it is set up like the newer Patriot. In fact, I'm gonna upgrade to the newer drive motors next. I have the CNC and DRO on mine and use them both. Here are some pics to the most involved project I've done on mine: Tripple Clamps for a custom motorcycle I built.

Nice work-
Here's a few pics

[crsatter]

I would never buy one again. I have had mine for two years. I had to pull every gear case apart and clean out a bunch of sand and metal cuttings. I did turn it in to CNC. I have adjusted and adjusted. I would buy two machines. A CNC Mill and a Lathe. Save the aggregation.

[jdclark]

Originally Posted by dan10400 Hello, I am considering a 2010 ShopMaster Patriot and wanted to solicit some feedback on this, because I am wavering a bit. I am primarily interested in from a hobby perspective - have some limited experience on knee mills and lathes (Jet). What I find interesting in the Patriot is the potential for space savings and the cnc option (I have no experience with this, but am a software developer by trade and have been itching to dink around). So some general questions about the ShopMaster (and combo machines in general) is the ability to get accuracy out of them. It seems they lack the ability to tram the mill head. The fact that the ways are used for both the mill and the lathe would seem to conflict how to adjust both the mill and the lathe as well. Can someone enlighten me a bit here? I have searched around to no avail. WRT the CNC capabilities of the Shopmaster, any comments here? Can it be used in the manual mode as well with this option? Any general comments regarding the quality of the machines now that they are being manufactured in ISO-certified plants? Anybody check the tolerances as published? Maybe ShopMaster does before sending out? If anyone is in the SF bay area (or thereabouts) willing to share a peek and experiences, it would be much appreciated. Regards, --Dan

Dan,
I think the biggest error people make is in their expectations. If you are realistic about buying a machine tool in this price range, then you will be satisfied with the product. Those people who are trying to get by with a Chinese combo machine when they need a Haas are going to be very unhappy.
Shopmaster had a close-out sale in '09 when one of their old factories closed and they were selling the machines for around 1800.00. I bought one of these and found some QC issues, but I figured that when a factory is closing, the QC is going to suffer. Since I was prepared for it, it was not a surprise. As part of my overall plan, I simply planned to disassemble the machine completely upon arrival and do my own QC. That worked out great for me, as the machine is really not very complicated, and it only took me about a week total to tear it down, clean everything and re-assemble to my own liking. After that, it worked fine and I have been very happy with the results. The new machines are coming from a newer factory with better equipment and better QC, so that may no longer be necessary.

[Fast01]

jdclark and Mrbracket, I PM'd you. I don't want to hijack the thread. Get back to me if you can.

[dan10400]

I appreciate everyone's input. I did actually go with a Shopmaster - prior to more of the
negative comments, but I had seen similar so wasn't caught off-gaurd by these (they
were appreciated though).

Factors for the purchase were primarily because of the space limitations. I had
tempered my expectations wrt accuracy and capacity. I was looking for something
that was capable of manual and CNC operations and that pretty much limited the
universe of possible solutions.

For the record, I did look at a lot of used machines of various types, including older
shopmasters and smittys as well as used standalone equipment. I have a good
handle on what the combos command in the aftermarket (at least in this area),
so have a good idea of what I have on the line.

I will feedback general comments and experiences as I spend a bit more time with the
machine.

Regards,

--Dan

[Fast01]

Good luck with your purchase! I bought one of the close-out machines they offered a couple of years ago. I went into it knowing and expecting there would be issues and I'm actually having fun working on it and being a total newbie, it's helping me to understand how all this stuff works. Keep us updated as to how your machine's working out. I'm curious to see how much, if any better the new machines are from the new factory. I'd also like to see if they have the infamous "table rock" issue.