Reconfiguring Yaskawa Drive for Position Control?

[rpseguin]

I have access to a lot of Yaskawa servo motors and SGDA -S (speed/torque control) servo drives, and I'm wondering what is involved in reconfiguring the drive to act for position control?
Can it be done?
How?

[Al_The_Man]

A servo drive requires some kind of intelligent controller that take a feedback signal from the likes of an encoder etc. and sends a command and correction signal to the drive, Unless the drive is a combined unit and has stand-alone capability then you will need the servo controller of some kind.
Al.

[rpseguin]

Originally Posted by Al_The_Man A servo drive requires some kind of intelligent controller that take a feedback signal from the likes of an encoder etc. and sends a command and correction signal to the drive, Unless the drive is a combined unit and has stand-alone capability then you will need the servo controller of some kind. Al.

Yes, I know.

Luckily these Yaskawa drives are digital step+dir drives that are integrated.
The encoder signal goes through the drive and is optionally routed to a motion controller.

What I want to know is if these "-S" (speed/torque control) drives can be reconfigured through some software means to be "-P" position control drives.

Thanks.
-Ralph

[mactec54]

Hi rpseguin
Are you building a robot or a router you only want position control for
robot type movements, speed control is for router mills lathes etc speed
control is + - 10V DC Analog these drives Sigma & Sigma II are not
Digital drives Sigma III is, The S is normaly single PH What are all of the
numbers on the drives this is important 200V etc This drive can do
Position control which is controled by Step + Dir input or Speed & Torque
control by +/ - 10volt DC They can also only run AC Servo Motors

[rpseguin]

My project is a CNC lathe (Hardinge HNC) retrofit.

Originally Posted by mactec54 Hi rpseguin Are you building a robot or a router you only want position control for robot type movements, speed control is for router mills lathes etc speed control is + - 10V DC Analog these drives Sigma & Sigma II are not Digital drives Sigma III is, The S is normaly single PH What are all of the numbers on the drives this is important 200V etc This drive can do Position control which is controled by Step + Dir input or Speed & Torque control by +/ - 10volt DC They can also only run AC Servo Motors

I definitely want position control. Not sure why you say speed control for routers/mills/lathes.
I would think position control for axes.
Speed control is good for spindles.
I actually have a 5KW servo motor and drive that I plan on running in position control for a C axis for my lathe spindle.

There are a LOT of these drives.
They are almost all 200V (a few 100V, and some 400V), but the voltage is not part of the model #. The number after the drive type indicates the wattage of the drive. The S doesn't really having anything to do with input voltage. S is for speed control, P is for position control.

Ie,
SGDA-04P --> 400W position control I drive (with step+dir inputs BTW)

SGDA-02S --> 200W speed control (also with step+dir inputs)

I also have some SGDB, SGDH, ...

I have pulled aside for my use in my lathe retrofit:
qty=2 SGDH-04P (400W position control, 200V)
qty=1 SGDB-50BGA (5KW, 200V)

My question still stands as to whether I can reconfigure a speed control drive for position control or not.

Thanks.
-Ralph

[mactec54]

Hi Ralph
The answer to your question is no you can not make the Drive do what it
was not made to do There is a big differance between a Pulse input as to
a +/- 10v DC input.

SDGH-04P is Position Control and you can not change this Drive to do any thing but Position Control ( Pulse input )

SDGA-04-AS is Position Control, Speed control & Torque Control and you can set it up any way you want. ( Pulse input or +/- 10v DC input )

SGDH-04-AES Is the same as above Speed, Torque & Position Control But is Sigma II

The A = 200v If there is a B =100V E= Speed,Torque & Position Control, S=Single Phase This is the letters for Sigma II I will check when I find my old Sigma book as to what you have

If the SGDA-02S is just for Speed and Torque then you won't be able
to change it to Position Control

The SGDB that you have is for Speed & Torque Control and may
support Position control I will have to check.

All modern CNC Machines run on Speed and Torque Control +/- 10VDC
some older machines that have stepper motors run on Pulse
I hope this helps

[Halfnutz]

No, the "S" drives will not accept pulse inputs, but Skyko and Rutex make converters. Skyko's SKY-P100 is only $100 bucks, but I havent tested it on a Yaskawa drive. It should work...

http://www.skyko.com/products/

Give it a try and post your results.

[rpseguin]

Originally Posted by mactec54 Hi Ralph The answer to your question is no you can not make the Drive do what it was not made to do There is a big differance between a Pulse input as to a +/- 10v DC input.

Yes, I agree, a big difference.
Digital (step+dir) input is a LOT cheaper to implement most of the time. That's why I'm excited about the Grex and its ilk. Just need the threading and C axis stuff to make it into the firmware now...

Originally Posted by mactec54 SDGH-04P is Position Control and you can not change this Drive to do any thing but Position Control ( Pulse input ) SDGA-04-AS is Position Control, Speed control & Torque Control and you can set it up any way you want. ( Pulse input or +/- 10v DC input )

That's what I thought about the SGDH -P drives I have.
That's interesting. I have a LOT of the AS drives as well.
The way I read page 33 of the SGDA User's Guide PDF
http://www.yaskawa.com/site/dmservo.nsf/aa8198da5462fcbe86256c59004e4bcb/86256ec30069fdef86256ca8005da51a/$FILE/sgda.pdf

SGDA-04AS is 400W, 200V, speed/torque control

Originally Posted by mactec54 SGDH-04-AES Is the same as above Speed, Torque & Position Control But is Sigma II The A = 200v If there is a B =100V E= Speed,Torque & Position Control, S=Single Phase This is the letters for Sigma II I will check when I find my old Sigma book as to what you have If the SGDA-02S is just for Speed and Torque then you won't be able to change it to Position Control The SGDB that you have is for Speed & Torque Control and may support Position control I will have to check. All modern CNC Machines run on Speed and Torque Control +/- 10VDC some older machines that have stepper motors run on Pulse I hope this helps

Cool.
Thanks for the answers.
Bummer that I can't reconfigure the speed/torque control drives over to position control, although I guess I could get one of the step/dir --> +/-10V converters and run it that way.

I just checked the Yaskawa SGDB docs, and they say that "SGDB model SERVOPACKs allow the control of speed, position and torque."

SGDB drives allow position control via pulse train. Not sure if that is for all SGDB drives or not.

Lemme see here...
Page 36 of the SGDB User's Guide indicates that 'D' models are for torque, speed and position control, but it also gives no other options, so methinks ALL SGDB drive are 'D' drives.

http://www.yaskawa.com/site/dmservo.nsf/aa8198da5462fcbe86256c59004e4bcb/86256ec30069fdef86256ca8005da532/$FILE/SGDB_User.PDF

Thanks!
-Ralph

[mactec54]

Hi Ralph
Halfnutz
I'm not sure how the converter will work as the Yaskawa Drives take
care of the encoder input ( 2CN ) plug and the converter needs the encoder pulse to work. you may be able to configure the encoder pulse through the ( 1CN ) Plug to the converter

[rpseguin]

Originally Posted by mactec54 Hi Ralph Halfnutz I'm not sure how the converter will work as the Yaskawa Drives take care of the encoder input ( 2CN ) plug and the converter needs the encoder pulse to work. you may be able to configure the encoder pulse through the ( 1CN ) Plug to the converter

Yes, but don't they also pass the encoder through to the motion controller on 1CN?

[Halfnutz]

Thats what I had imagined, that the encoder signal would have to be passed through to the converter. I wish I had an extra 100 bucks right now to give it a try, but I need other stuff first, someday I will buy one.

It would be great if they work, I have about ten of the "S" drives sitting around collecting dust. You cant give them away..., Ive gotten them off eBay for as little as 15 bucks each, I got 3 for 50 dollars once, I buy them for the connectors, it costs less to buy a drive with connectors off eBay than set of new connectors from Yaskawa.

The SGDB will accept both types of input, but it requires three phase power.

[rpseguin]

Originally Posted by Halfnutz Thats what I had imagined, that the encoder signal would have to be passed through to the converter. I wish I had an extra 100 bucks right now to give it a try, but I need other stuff first, someday I will buy one.

I will try it one day. I'll be ordering a couple of the Pixie P100 converters in the next month or two.

Originally Posted by Halfnutz It would be great if they work, I have about ten of the "S" drives sitting around collecting dust. You cant give them away..., Ive gotten them off eBay for as little as 15 bucks each, I got 3 for 50 dollars once, I buy them for the connectors, it costs less to buy a drive with connectors off eBay than set of new connectors from Yaskawa. The SGDB will accept both types of input, but it requires three phase power.

The three phase power is the part that bums me out. I'm going to try single phase, just to see if it works.
If I get a C axis going, that is going to be one kick ass spindle.
The motor I have is a 5 KW, with a 4096 PPR encoder, so better than a tenth of a degree for positioning.

Any idea when the new Grex G100 firmware will be out to support C axis and threading?

If I were to just use parallel port at 45 KHz, that works out to be only 600 RPM max spindle speed, so kinda poky (it is a 3000 RPM motor).
I have thought about maybe going 1:1.5 or 1:2 gearing up the speed to be 4500 or 6000 RPM max spindle speed. I lose torque, but I gain max speed for aluminum, which is what I do most of. Not too much torque lost though, since the original motor (which I still have) is 2.5 HP

Thanks.
-Ralph