Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?


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Thread: Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

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    Default Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

    Hello, This is my first post outside of my intro post and although I have many many much larger questions about the general direction I should go based on my circumstances, the parts I have acquired and the machine I would like to end up with, I am attempting here to bypass that whole discussion(which I will eventually post about once I have the chance) and get some more specific, more technical questions answered. I included a little info about the motors and where/how I acquired them in my intro post so if you want a little more back story to understand why I am where I am that will explain without having to complicate my post with all that extra info.

    So I have two Parker, Model# SM233BE-TTQN 170v Brushless Servo motors, and I do NOT have the original controllers.

    I would like to know what the bare minimum I would need to drive these in a closed loop CNC system and what my different options are. At this point I am really just looking to get something working with what I have while spending as little as possible at this point. However, I am interested in opinions on these motors, if they are appropriate for my application or if maybe I would just be better off selling them and using the funds to buy something more along the lines of what I need, etc., etc.

    Also I have a set of 3 Advanced Motion Controls, "Brushless PWM Servo Amplifier" Model# B12A6L-SY2, that, if possible, I would like to use to drive these Parker Servos, BUT according to the info I have for these drivers their voltage range is 20-60VDC.

    Can I drive these servos with these amplifiers even though they don't reach the rated voltage of 170v stated on the motors?

    If so what else, other than the servos and amps do I need in the equation?

    If these amps wont work for these servos, what kind of motors would one suggest for use with these amps?

    Hopefully I have made my questions fairly clear and have placed this post in the correct place, BUT if anyone has any questions for me or if its not the appropriate place for this post please let me know.

    I am really looking forward to any and all input and info so thank you all in advance for the responses and understanding.

    Thanks AGAIN
    Alan

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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

    The Advanced Motion Controls drives will operate a number of different motors, but the motors should be rated at the drive operating voltage. Trying to run 170 V motors on 60 volts would give very poor performance. You are going to have to do some homework to find motors that are compatible with the drives. I would think the Advanced Motion Control website would give you some direction. You might look at Anaheim Automation for motors.

    As far as the other hardware needed, you will need encoders, and a motion controller that will accept an encoder feedback to close the loop. Then some CNC software to run your system.



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    Default Re: Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

    Thanks for the quick reply Jim, having forum that I can go to with questions and actually get responses with out being mocked as a newb is refreshing!!!

    Anyway, so you confirmed my suspicions about running the servos with the AMC servo amps. I would however like to know if in fact it would be harmful or possibly damaging to the servos to run them from this amp even though its max operating voltage is 60v whereas the servos are rated at 170v. I have tried to find info on the servos to see if they have a operating voltage range, along with any other electrical specs on the actual BLDC motor, but outside of the information of the encoders I am not able to find much.

    So I guess my follow up questions are as follows:

    Is it ok to run these servos using the AMC amps just for basic testing of the different components and mechanics of the CNC? I.E. No load, no cuts being made just to test the electronics from controller to servos and back along with seeing how the xyz and how they are working together?

    Seeing as these AMC Servo Amps do not have encoder feedback(just hall I think), where would I run the feedback from the 1000 ppr encoders, and could I just rely on the hall feedback to start with?

    Also, I am a little confused because I am not AS educated on the closed loop Servo systems as I am on the open loop stepper ones, so do these Servo amps take whatever the servo version of 'STEP and DIRECTION' from the actual controller just like the different stepper driver boards do, or is a completely different kind of system?

    Last but not least, an opinion question. Am I trying too hard to use these 170v BLDC Servos, and over complicating my first build just because it is what I have on hand and does not add any cost to my low budget build? Am I better off putting these motors up for sale and taking the money and buying some better suited stepper and stepper controllers, or different bldc motors I can actually drive with these servo amps? It is really hard to tell how much I could get for them, but it seems like the range I have seen for Parker SM233 frame motors is anywhere from $300-$1000 depending on specifics of the motor, condition and seller. So even at the lower end I end up with a good amount of money to spend on different motors that I can better work with and actually end up with three matching motors seeing as I only have two of these Parker BLDCs,,,, Opinions? Suggestions?

    Thanks Again and I look forward to the reply's!!!!!



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

    Quote Originally Posted by JnkYrdCNC777 View Post
    Thanks for the quick reply Jim, having forum that I can go to with questions and actually get responses with out being mocked as a newb is refreshing!!!
    There are very few forums that treat newbs respectfully. CNC Zone is one that does which is one of the reasons that I'm a member. I'm a moderator on another forum, and any mocking or disparaging of any member is shut down instantly there also. That's the way it should be. The job of the more experienced members is to help and educate the less experienced, hopefully that will be passed on in the future. I've been doing this stuff for about 50 years, so maybe I can pass on some of the experience I have had.

    Anyway, so you confirmed my suspicions about running the servos with the AMC servo amps. I would however like to know if in fact it would be harmful or possibly damaging to the servos to run them from this amp even though its max operating voltage is 60v whereas the servos are rated at 170v. I have tried to find info on the servos to see if they have a operating voltage range, along with any other electrical specs on the actual BLDC motor, but outside of the information of the encoders I am not able to find much.
    For testing, as long as you don't overvoltage the drives I think you are safe. You won't hurt the motors and the drives will protect themselves. There really won't be any danger of over current, because the impedance of the 170V motor will be much higher than a 60V motor.

    So I guess my follow up questions are as follows:

    Is it ok to run these servos using the AMC amps just for basic testing of the different components and mechanics of the CNC? I.E. No load, no cuts being made just to test the electronics from controller to servos and back along with seeing how the xyz and how they are working together?
    Should work fine, but the motors may not track properly because they will not be able to accelerate and rotate at the rated performance.

    Seeing as these AMC Servo Amps do not have encoder feedback(just hall I think), where would I run the feedback from the 1000 ppr encoders, and could I just rely on the hall feedback to start with?
    I don't know if just using the Hall sensors will provide adequate feedback. I think it depends on how the drives work internally. It may work fine as an open loop system. If you can't tie the encoders back to the drive then encoders need to be tied back to whatever you are using for a controller to close the loop. I have not waded through the AMC manual, so I'm making an educated guess at the inner workings. The step & direction servo systems that I have worked with have had encoder feedback to the drive.

    Also, I am a little confused because I am not AS educated on the closed loop Servo systems as I am on the open loop stepper ones, so do these Servo amps take whatever the servo version of 'STEP and DIRECTION' from the actual controller just like the different stepper driver boards do, or is a completely different kind of system?
    Yes, they take the same signals as a stepper system.

    Last but not least, an opinion question. Am I trying too hard to use these 170v BLDC Servos, and over complicating my first build just because it is what I have on hand and does not add any cost to my low budget build? Am I better off putting these motors up for sale and taking the money and buying some better suited stepper and stepper controllers, or different bldc motors I can actually drive with these servo amps? It is really hard to tell how much I could get for them, but it seems like the range I have seen for Parker SM233 frame motors is anywhere from $300-$1000 depending on specifics of the motor, condition and seller. So even at the lower end I end up with a good amount of money to spend on different motors that I can better work with and actually end up with three matching motors seeing as I only have two of these Parker BLDCs,,,, Opinions? Suggestions?
    Parker products tend to be a bit pricy, you might be better off to sell those and get motors that are compatible with your drives. I have 4 Parker motors and drives that I picked up cheap at an auction that I haven't even looked at yet, hopefully I will be able to use those for my next CNC project. I am planning on CNCing one of my surface grinders, this year maybe

    I would start at the AMC web site and see what they offer. Anaheim Automation is an option also. Also there are a number of servo motors on ebay that may be compatible.



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    Default Re: Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

    I drive a SM231be with a Applied Motion SV7-s-ae. The drive is limited to 80volts. It runs the 170volt Parker fine, it just won't reach full 7500rpm. I only need 2000rpm which is no problem with the power supply I am using.

    You need a drive with both encoders and hall inputs which the sv7 supports.



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    Default Re: Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

    Quote Originally Posted by jfong View Post
    I drive a SM231be with a Applied Motion SV7-s-ae. The drive is limited to 80volts. It runs the 170volt Parker fine, it just won't reach full 7500rpm. I only need 2000rpm which is no problem with the power supply I am using.

    You need a drive with both encoders and hall inputs which the sv7 supports.
    Thank you for posting that. I'm learning also.



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    Default Re: Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

    The Parker SM servos and the advanced motion drives are good solid equipment. They are very well matched as well. The voltage rating is less important than the current ratings. The benefit with a servo is it will start and maintain the torque rating through the majority of the RPM range. Amps for torque, voltage for speed. You can download the spec sheets from the respective companies. I have a very similar setup and started my "learning" about 7 years ago. I have the SM232A and AMC B12A8 on my CNC router and it plows through anything I have thrown at it. (Due to the high lead on my ball screws, it has way more speed than I require.)
    The SM233 is a 5800 RPM, 519W servo. With 1000ppr integrated encoders. Your encoder wires go the motion controller, the hall effect wires go to the amps.

    The amps "do NOT" accept step and direction signals. They accept +/- 10 command signal. This means you will need a controller that interprets step/direction and then sends the appropriate command voltage. If you are building a closed loop system you will need a controller regardless. (FYI-mach3 does not close the loop)
    I use Galil DMC-1880, there are few other options available. I investigated Mesa boards which are cheaper, but I am not as familiar with linux. So I went with a windows/mach3 setup. Mach3 has a plugin that communicates the motion to the Galil and then Galil - AMC - Servos is the servo loop.
    Al_the_man is a mod here and has a great deal of knowledge on this particular subject / equipment.
    Amps that accept step and direction may make a cheaper/easier setup but they would have to accept the encoder signals and close the loop at the amp.



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    Default Re: Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

    Wow!!!! So I guess it really pays to pay close attention to, or make sure to go back and check threads one has started even if its been a while since you have been working on that specific part of the project!!!

    I just spent the last three hours figuring out what was spelled out for me, by the last poster, on the thread I started!!! Do I feel like a jerk or what!!!

    So my question now is more or less directed at the last poster because of the similarity of our motors/amps, but obviously anyone with knowledge too.

    Being that this is my first real CNC build should I just sell the motors and amps I have and buy some off the shelf steppers/servos/controllers or do you think the combo of the Parker BLDC Servos and the amc amps are worth the extra cost of having to add the extra feedback card in the mix? Side note too, I only have two of the parker servos so I would need to find a third or use a different motor for one of the axis.

    Through my research today I found a company that advertises on here that sells a card step2linear that seems as if it would work. Is this what you are basically referring to?

    Oh, also power supplies, any suggestions with out spending an arm and a leg?

    Thanks for all the feedback!!
    ALAN

    P.S. Ill be sure to check back so I don't miss the time saving knowledge being given here!



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    Default Re: Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

    there is something to be said for buying something that just works, and is made to work together.

    Are you building a 3 axis machine?

    To me, the AMC amps work fine, but it's sort of a low-end solution as far as servos go. My collection of AMC amps were bought on the cheap from ebay. I wouldn't have bought them if I had to pay full cost. Actually, I'm shopping for servo amps for work, and I was looking at AMC because it is a price-sensitive project.

    I'd be curious about power supplies as well. AMC sells one, but it's not inexpensive for what it is.



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    Default Re: Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

    Quote Originally Posted by jfong View Post
    I drive a SM231be with a Applied Motion SV7-s-ae. The drive is limited to 80volts. It runs the 170volt Parker fine, it just won't reach full 7500rpm. I only need 2000rpm which is no problem with the power supply I am using.

    You need a drive with both encoders and hall inputs which the sv7 supports.
    Thanks for posting this, it is really helpful, and not information that is readily available out on the net. I bought some 200V servos (real cheap, snatched em up before finishing research...) without realizing that 200V servos were most likely going to need a 220V supply (which would be a pain for me to wire in) to match. Great to know that i can drive them with something easier/cheaper.


    Jim, I normally make the assumption that forums are "know or GTFO," especially with technology that has been around so long. After reading your post, I'm going to be sticking around cnczone a lot more.



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    Default Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

    You have to look at the specs of the motor. They will have a Kv rating, which is number of volts per 1000rpm. I think my Parker motors were around 30Kv so I needed 60volts to reach 2000rpm. Some motors do have a pretty high Kv rating so you need significant voltage to get rpm out of them. Those motors are best avoided. Good luck.

    Also higher voltage gives better acceleration.



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    Default Re: Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

    Quote Originally Posted by jfong View Post
    You have to look at the specs of the motor. They will have a Kv rating, which is number of volts per 1000rpm. I think my Parker motors were around 30Kv so I needed 60volts to reach 2000rpm. Some motors do have a pretty high Kv rating so you need significant voltage to get rpm out of them. Those motors are best avoided. Good luck.

    Also higher voltage gives better acceleration.
    That's some good info!

    I admit I'm a complete dummy when it comes to putting together servo controls, because I've never done it. Also, it's not something I've found alot of step by step information on.

    Sure, you can buy a board and drivers and servos from a manufacturer, but when you try to piece things together on a budget,....., well I am in the same situation as the OP. I've been looking at some servos, but gave up because I don't know how to drive them and I had the same concern about the power supply voltage.

    The servos I've been considering are Parker Compumotor, similar to the OP. For me, I'd probably be looking to find a driver that has step and dir inputs and close the loop at the drive. It just seems like there are way to many pins on the encoder, and I have no idea where they would all need to go? Also, used cables appear to cost an arm and two legs on Ebay, and I don't know, are they all manufacturer specific pin layouts?

    hey, JnkYrdCNC777, what are you going to do for cables? Will the pin layouts match your drivers and servos?



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    Default Re: Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

    Good thing about Parker motors, the color coding of the encoder wires is well documented.

    The Applied Motion brushless drivers I use have a HD15 connector for the encoder and hall outputs. This is the same connector that older VGA monitors use. Well guess who has decent, cheap, extra long, shielded VGA monitors cables. Monoprice.com. I buy whatever length is needed, cut one end off to connect to the motor and the other end goes to the driver.



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    Default Re: Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

    Quote Originally Posted by jfong View Post
    Good thing about Parker motors, the color coding of the encoder wires is well documented.

    The Applied Motion brushless drivers I use have a HD15 connector for the encoder and hall outputs. This is the same connector that older VGA monitors use. Well guess who has decent, cheap, extra long, shielded VGA monitors cables. Monoprice.com. I buy whatever length is needed, cut one end off to connect to the motor and the other end goes to the driver.
    More excellent info to know!



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Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?

Parker Compumoter SM233BE-TTQN 170v BLDC Servo Controller? Voltage?