Reply with QuoteI think one of the biggest problems in looking at surplus eBay AC servos is resolver Vs hall output. Not all servo drives are compatible to both. The applied motion drives I have is only hall/encoder input.
Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
When shopping for AC servos on ebay, i was very confused at the number of options, and mysterious part numbers.
I made a guide to help sort though the listings, and decipher the part numbers.
Here it is.
General AC Servo notes:
- Pretty much any series is good for hobby work, usually with motors sized between 100 - 750W
- 11 bit = 2500ppr, In my opinion, the coarsest resolution suitable for servo use
- More resolution is better
- If in doubt, check the servo drive manual. They list compatible motors in there also.
Delta ASD series:
A Discontinued, assuming 11bit
A2 standard 20bit, manual also shows 17 bit, 11 bit, and Absolute encoder options.
AB 11 bit encoder
B 11 bit encoder
B2 17 bit standard, 13 bit magnetic optional.
Notes:
- All models have at least analog speed/torque input and position input.
- Single phase input up to 1.5KW
Mitsubishi Melservo MR series:
J2 13/14 bit Compatible motors HC-MF/SF/UC HA-FF
J2S 17 bit Compatible motors HC-KF/MF/SF/RF/UF/LF HA-LF
J3 18 bit Compatible motors HK-KP/MP/SP/JP, HC-LP/RP/UP, HA-LP
J4 22 bit Compatible motors HG-KR/MR/SR/JR/RR, HG-UR
JE 17 bit Compatible motors HF-KN/SN
JN 17 bit Compatible motors HF-KN (400W Max)
Notes:
- Some motor types may be irrelevant for hobby use, not compatible with single phase drive.
- All have analog speed/torque and position input
- Single phase input up to 750W
- Have seen J3 drive sold with HF-KP motor on ebay
panasonic a5II 20 bit
yaskawa SGDV 13/17/20 bit
yaskawa SJDE
Anyone care to add or clarify?
I haven't done much research on the panasonics or yaskawa.
I think the yaskawas and omron are almost identical, a lot of info may transfer over.
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Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
I think one of the biggest problems in looking at surplus eBay AC servos is resolver Vs hall output. Not all servo drives are compatible to both. The applied motion drives I have is only hall/encoder input.
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
I forgot Omron
Omron R88 series:
r88D-KT g5 series analog or position control. 20 bit inc, or 17 bit abs. compatible motors are R88M-K
100V input up to 400W 200V input single phase up to 1500W
r88D-KP g5 lite series position control only. 20 bit inc encoder. compatible motors are R88M-KE
r88D-U 11 bit Inc or 10 bit Abs encoder. r88d-UA for analog input, r88D-UP for position. 30 - 750W power.
compatible motors R88M-U
r88D-WT 100V HL suffix code up to 200W 200V single phase up to 400W compatible motors R88M-W
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
Servos with resolvers didn't really come up in my searches. I stayed away from fanuc, allen bradley, and other brands that didn't seem popular for retrofitting.Originally Posted by jfong
I know a few of the allen bradley drives that came up at first took 600V DC input, so I wrote off that whole brand in my future searches.
I also stayed away from anything with a resolver, because I was under the (wrong?) impression that they all had low pulse counts.
I didn't know what resolution encoders I wanted when I was searching, but am glad I snagged a setup with 20 bit encoders.
In the end I got 2 Delta ASD-A2 400w drives and motors. The manuals are incredible, as well as the tuning/config software.
I am on the lookout for a 750W servo and drive with 20 bit encoders for a rotary axis. I am having trouble with the setup I have now. 14 bits seemed like a lot when I was shopping around, but 20 bit seems like a bare minimum for a rotary axis. I have found one new set but of course I would prefer a used set at a deep discount.
Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
The problem with some of the proprietary high count absolute encoders is the expensive compatible drivers that you need. Finding a driver that works can be difficult with surplus stuff, for example Yaskawa
I bought some THK linear axis for cheap on eBay. They came with Yaskawa servo motors with 17bit encoders. Couldn't find any drives for cheap so I got rid of the motors and used something else.
Last edited by jfong; 05-20-2015 at 06:22 PM.
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
The 22 bit encoders in the Mitsubishi MR-J4 equates to 4,194,304ppr. The motors plus the drivers are so capable and advanced that the servo loop tuning is almost completely automated. The resolution capability has allowed mitsubishi to build in active vibration dampening into their systems. It can always tune on the fly with changing load characteristics.
I think these capabilities have been in the mitsubishi lineup for a few generations now.
Yaskawa is the largest supplier of AC servo drives - I believe some of their products have similar capabilities of the mitsubishi.
Bosch is another large supplier of servo drives, along with positioning stages. The benefits of their servo+actuator combinations is that they map the ballscrew (with an external linear actuator) and write the position information into the servo motor/driver. The position loop is compensated with this information. I think this is the trend in the motion control world actually. I believe Bosch has encoders higher than 22bit resolution for their servos. Bosch has some neat SW capabilities with labview interfaces. I do not believe their autotuning capabilities are where mitsubishi's are, but they claim their general tune from the factory is good for many (mostly rigid) systems.
All of these have some learning curves though, and they are super pricey. I don't claim to be a servo expert but I have had Bosch and Mitsubishi in at my company to give some good showcases of their technologies.
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
I know this is a really old thread, but can anyone advise the Yaskawa equivalent of the Omron R88D-U drives and R88M-U motors?
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
You are missing information, you want a Yaskawa motor, ( most common ) you need to know the Drive voltage, could be 100v 200v and 400v, so this must match, you also need the Drive watts as this determines the motor size, and are the drives sigma or sigma II
Mactec54
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
Thanks for the reply. Full model number is Omron R88D-UA08V - 200V 200W.
All I really need to know is what is the equivalent series of drives and motors - I can work the rest out for myself. I suspect that the equivalent Yaskawa drive will be SGD-02AN. I'm a bit unsure about the N as I don't really know what "mechatrolink" means.
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
No you don't want a N, unless you have the mechatrolink Drive, the Yaskawa motor would be a SGM or a SGMP SGM-02A3 A is 200v 3: 2048P/R incremental encoder or W: 12-bit absolute encoder 1 Design revision order then the shaft configuration 2: Straight without key or 4: Straight with key
The Drives would be SGD or the SGDA
Mactec54
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
Brilliant, just what I need to know. So I think the following motors will be compatible - let me know if I'm mistaken:
OMRON R88M AC SERVOMOTOR REDUCED TO SELL | eBay
1PC Used Yaskawa servo motor SGM-02B312 | eBay1Pcs Used Servo Motor Yaskawa Sgm-02A312 Plc Module T | eBay
Used 1Pcs Sgm-02A312 Servo Motor Yaskawa Plc Module X | eBay
Used 1Pcs Servo Motor Sgmp-02A314 200W Yaskawa Plc Module H | eBay
No idea what plc module T or X or H means - I can't see any difference.
But I take it that this will not be compatible: **UNUSED** Omron / Yaskawa SGMAH-02AAA6CD-0Y SGMAH02AAA servo motor | eBay
Last edited by Tripet; 07-19-2017 at 01:02 PM.
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
Be careful with the numbers the SGM-02B312 will not work with your drives the ( B ) is for 100v Drives
A extra letter on the end SGMAH no these are not suitable for your drives
I will have a look to see if I have any of these SMG 200w Motors
Mactec54
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
Yes that was a schoolboy error - I know that I need the 02A type, don't know how that slipped through.
Thanks for all your help - much appreciated.
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
Just out of curiosity, I take it that the reason why the SGMAH motors, or any other outside of the SGM/P series, won't work is that the encoders aren't compatible?
I take it that the "plc module T" etc doesn't mean anything.
Last edited by Tripet; 07-19-2017 at 04:54 PM.
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
Yes those motors are Sigma II, if you can find them with the same 11 Bit Encoder Resolution then they could be used, but they would be custom as Sigma II have a standard 17bit Encoder
Yes the T H Etc should not be in those photos
Mactec54
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
Thanks I thought it would be something along those lines - steep learning curve this!
One further thing: I'm used to making up my own cables to connect between various bits of kit (unless cheap proprietary ones are available). Is it possible to make up the cables for these things? What standard are the sockets?
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
If you go to the Yaskawa web site under down loads find your Drive and they will give you all the wiring of the Plugs Cables that is needed if there is not enough in this manual
Mactec54
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
Is special software needed to interrogate the drive via the RS232 port or do you have to have the digital operator unit?
Once again many thanks - you've got me moving along the right lines. I might come back and pester you for help with getting Mach3 to talk to it if I run into trouble.
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
I'm beginning to wish I hadn't started this...
I've connected the motor and the encoder. However, I can't get into the servo driver software as for some reason the OMNUC interface software and the Yaskawa software doesn't like my USB-RS232 port and won't connect with the servo drive.
Anyway, I'd like to try running the servo driver from my BOB using the current programme settings, but I can't get to the bottom of what I need to connect. It would seem logical that I only need four or five wires to give the driver an enable signal and step and direction pulse, but I'm buggered if I can see exactly what I need to dohttp://www.mycncuk.com/images/smilies/grey.png.
Attached are the pin-outs from the driver interface socket. It looks like 1 & 2 are step and 3 & 4 direction - but of course I only have one step and one direction output from the BOB. Am I right in thinking that step goes to 1 and direction to 3 while both pin 2 and 4 go to ground? Which pin relates to "enable" - 14?
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attach...d=369110&stc=1
Re: Surplus AC Servo buyers guide
I was reading this thread and noticed that you have a lots of experience with this subject. Would you be able to solve my problem also:
I have a problem with my cnc machine z-axis. It is 20 years old and equipped with Yaskawa cacr-sr03be12g-e and USAGED-03A21 motor with UTOPI-81AUS encoder (8192 p/r)
The driver is now broken, and unrepairable. Would you know if I can use any other Yaskawa drive with this motor?
I understood if the voltage 200V and the power 300w are the same, it should work?
The encoder has 3 parallel channels, unlike the modern serial encoders. This should be matched also as I understood.
I have been searching for second hand Yaskawa drives , and for me it seems that Yaskawa sigma DR2 drive could work
Does anyone have any experience with this kind of replacements?
The system is controlled with num750 controller, analog +-10v, encoder feedback.
Thank you very much for any further information,
Joe
