2007 bad year for safety do you agree?

[bdphillips03]

Originally Posted by Mike Horne Hey don't take this the wrong way; I intend no offense, but I see the other side. And think I've been there. I wish I had your experience. I started in the environmental field, and am trying to switch careers. I have a year in trade school, manual machines. I agree that blatant mistakes by the worker are one thing, but in my experience there's more often than not bad management out there. And sometimes it *is* the managements fault. Mike Horne

You seem pretty bitter. Have you ever worked anywhere with a good safety program?
What does: "Safety is a management committment and a line responsibility." mean to you?

Brian

[laszlozoltan]

I remember my first day as a cnc operator programmer, it was a cabinet shop, sat down for luch with all these guys eating their sandwiches with the nubs left of their fingers...it was un-freaking-believeable. It made me very aware to be very careful- and I was- I took no risks; and when my probation came up and I was informed that they weren't going to keep me past my probation I was very relieved- they saved me from making the difficult choice were the money was good but the air was bad and safety was not part of the machinery.

[Mike Horne]

Originally Posted by bdphillips03 You seem pretty bitter. Have you ever worked anywhere with a good safety program? What does: "Safety is a management committment and a line responsibility." mean to you? Brian

Bitter? You say that like it's a bad thing Of course I'm bitter. My emotion now doesn't invalidate any instances of really poor management I endured Trying to do the right thing cost me a lot of trouble, three jobs, a relationship, and a bit of my health.

I did have a good experience, I guess it spoiled me for what to expect afterward.

My first job was for the park service, a program called YCC, the remainder of the Civilian Conservation Corp. Essentially we did all the heavy brush and tree removal on old civil war entrenchments in the Fredericksburg and Spotsylvania National Military Park were machinery was prohibited. The Chief Ranger took safety very seriously, took pride in the program and really was a good boss. The immediate super was a student who went to Canada summers to be a lumberjack. I'll never forget his safety presentation.

It went something like this: "These are the tools you'll use, watch carefully. This is a swing blade, it cuts grass. Don't get too close to anybody else while swinging this. The tool rule is two tool lengths, plus two arms lengths, get any closer and... (he wacks a helmet on the ground away from us like a golf ball) Don't let that happen to you or anybody else. This is a loping shear, these are copper pipes. (cuts the copper pipes with the shears) Don't do this to your fingers. Next he puts a steel toe boot on a stump. "This is the Park Service Fire Emergency brush hook, it cuts down trees. *Chop* Whacks the boot in half. Be very careful using this tool. Chainsaws you will not use. I will teach you what to do when I'm using them later. Next topic is heat. There will always be water, if the heat is bothering you, I expect you to stay at the cooler so I know there is trouble. Do not make me tell you that you are having trouble with heat, we all will at some point this summer. If there are two of you having trouble, we all take a break." I usually had a half gallon of gatorade with lunch.

And his words on work "I expect you to do your best, only you know what your best is. I'll do my best, you do your best."

The Chief Rangers words were memorable to. "If you work like your mother is watching everything you do, then you will probably do okay in life."

We had some minor mishaps, but nothing serious.

My other good job was this:

My first spill boss was hard as nails, but fair. He said that we would do dangerous work, and as such I had to trust his judgement, but I could question it... but if I did, and I was wrong... I would be fired on the spot. I used it too. My fellow techicians and I suspected the guy about to be promoted spill operations manager falsified his references, so I asked the boss to call and verify them. Not one checked out. I was right, but they fired my boss that week, because the company decided that to run the office you needed a masters degree, which he didn't have. So, they put a guy with no spill experience in charge of deciding who to run things out in the field, and then supervising him.

From the earlier post:

"What does: "Safety is a management committment and a line responsibility." mean to you?"

An ideal not often reached.

If you own a shop and mean it, my hat's off to you. There seem to be some small shop owners on this thread who have an attitude I heartily approve of. Once I finish getting moved, I may beg you for a job

Seems the places I didn't fit over the years did not have safety as a management committment... when presented with problems, they would rather hide heads in sand, come up with some bizarre interpretation of Osha, or blame the worker. I'll sound bitter I know, but it sounds like another poster up on the wall, that mangement has there to look good, paid a consultant some money to come up with, but doesn't take to heart.

The above statement to me seems to leave out teamwork, and has an adversarial attitude towards the workforce. I mean really, management is not the only part of the equation with a brain. In fact, the majority of the times I've been in a company with trouble and they bring in a "consultant" to fix the problem, management is not told anything, that is *nothing*, that is not known or thought of by the employees that they are supervising. There just has to be some face saving gesture that will be ignored later. I find that usually somebody has to get really badly hurt before a company will accept the culture of not screwing up again. Hell, I worked at a state university health and safety department, and the only reason that I didn't get fired for insisting on using and following OSHA procedures was that I would have had a heck of lawsuit.

Enough of that... in manufacturing and machining, the "line" if you will... you have skilled and highly trained workers. If they fulfill their responsibility, there should be no serious problems.

But again, there has to be cooperation from both sides of the equation. I like that, Safety = |management|x|line workers| if either value is zero, you are in trouble.

I guess that I don't entirely agree with "Safety is a management committment and a line responsibility." Because I feel it is everyones responsibility.

I'm surprised that industry doesn't spring for lots more training. I mean, if you generate any waste at all, and have a vendor that picks it up, they often throw in a number of training spots every year to get your business. Wink Wink! The same guys that train Osha 40 for hazmat probably also are trained to do the general industry 30 hour course. If you are a large manufacturer, then Clean Harbors, Safety Kleen, or whoever picks up rags, oil, or recycleables will probably be happy to do a joint class on this or that. They have to spring for that training themselves, or keep a guy on staff... a thousand bucks a head is a heck of a tax write off. Advertising, good will, and a tax write off... easy math!


Also a few universities have some kind of adaptation for machine shop safety online. Cheap compared to the aftermath of that horrible picture...

The Osha courses for general industry are if I remember right 30 hours or so. I'm probably close enough to a University to piggy back into a class for cheap. If not, it's probably only grand or so for the course.

Speaking of which, the general duty clause... requires management to control hazards not otherwise directly stated in the CFR, and protect workers from things known or reasonably expected to be dangerous. So when management drops the ball completely, I'm not inclined to be terribly forgiving. It's been law around for about thirty years. Plenty of time to get with the program.

Amazing what I remember, I have a big old stack of Osha certificates, one more won't hurt


Luck

Mike Horne