The truth about Safety...

[ImanCarrot]

I was reading New Scientist last night in the pub and I meant to bring it in today so i could quote directly from it, but the landlord wanted it after me, so I'll have to paraphrase...

Safety experts (from some reputeable source) were asked by New Scientist if, during an imminent passenger airline crash was it actualy helpful if the passengers adopted the "brace position". The answer was an unequivical "yes"... "there's more chances of the teeth and jaw remaining intact, which facilitates dental identification".

The other question they asked him was "Is there really any point in asking passengers to don life jackets when ditching in freezing oceans" (basicaly you have about 3 minutes in water like this). Again, the answer way "Oh yes, the bodies will float".

Hmmm I can see their point, but...

[epineh]

That doesn't exactly give you a warm and fuzzy feeling does it?...

Russell.

[martinw]

Originally Posted by ImanCarrot I was reading New Scientist last night in the pub and I meant to bring it in today so i could quote directly from it, but the landlord wanted it after me, so I'll have to paraphrase... Safety experts (from some reputeable source) were asked by New Scientist if, during an imminent passenger airline crash was it actualy helpful if the passengers adopted the "brace position". The answer was an unequivical "yes"... "there's more chances of the teeth and jaw remaining intact, which facilitates dental identification". The other question they asked him was "Is there really any point in asking passengers to don life jackets when ditching in freezing oceans" (basicaly you have about 3 minutes in water like this). Again, the answer way "Oh yes, the bodies will float". Hmmm I can see their point, but...

Dear ImanCarrot,

The people at New Scientist are getting lazy. That story about "brace position" and dental records goes back quite a few years.

Also, survival rates in freezing water (unless you are unlucky enough to gulp it in on entry) are about ten minutes in a conscious state, and 15-45 minutes unconscious. I guess the matter of body fat might impinge on the time of death.

Anyway, per mile of travel, flying looks pretty safe.

If anybody wants more "aviation myths", there is a book called "Air Babylon".

I have not read it, but it is supposed to be a bit of a (grim) laugh.


Best wishes,


Martin

[Geof]

Originally Posted by martinw Dear ImanCarrot, The people at New Scientist are getting lazy. That story about "brace position" and dental records goes back quite a few years...... Martin

He didn't say how old it was. If pubs are anything like Dentist's Waiting Rooms it might have been Issue #1.

I once sat in row four on a Jumbo and amused myself calculating how much time I would have to be aware of it flying into something solid. Given that human reaction is not much better than 100 milliseconds I concluded I would never be aware so I relaxed; and have ever since when flying.

[paulsmith632]

hardly seems like enough time to get my tray table in it's upright and locked position... and having that up makes for a safe flight.

[martinw]

Originally Posted by Geof He didn't say how old it was. If pubs are anything like Dentist's Waiting Rooms it might have been Issue #1. I once sat in row four on a Jumbo and amused myself calculating how much time I would have to be aware of it flying into something solid. Given that human reaction is not much better than 100 milliseconds I concluded I would never be aware so I relaxed; and have ever since when flying.

Dear Geof,

It just so happens to be the case that I will be meeting today with a family member who trained and practices as a doctor. Many years ago, she related to me a lecture from a forensic pathologist about "sorting out the bits" after aircraft "incidents". She may be able to help about the details.

I will, memory refreshed, report back, if you wish.

Best wishes

Martin

[Geof]

Originally Posted by martinw Dear Geof, It just so happens to be the case that I will be meeting today with a family member who trained and practices as a doctor. Many years ago, she related to me a lecture from a forensic pathologist about "sorting out the bits" after aircraft "incidents". She may be able to help about the details. I will, memory refreshed, report back, if you wish. Best wishes Martin

Ask her about 'flailing injuries'. They, I believe, are diagnostic for mid air rupture as opposed to a ground incident. The human body is not very aerodynamic and when it hits air at a few hundred Km per hour it generates extreme turbulence in which it participates.

[martinw]

Originally Posted by Geof Ask her about 'flailing injuries'. They, I believe, are diagnostic for mid air rupture as opposed to a ground incident. The human body is not very aerodynamic and when it hits air at a few hundred Km per hour it generates extreme turbulence in which it participates.

Dear Geof,

I will ask her about the aerodynamic properties of the human body at high speed but I doubt she will be able to help. I think she may have something on inpact injuries.

I would not wish to be put into the air, suddenly, at 30,000 feet, but if I did not die from the shock of it, I would certainly be "flailing". Yes it would be cold, but I can't see that being asked to move from an economy class seat into a 500 mph wind would immediately kill me.

Then there's that problem with gravity.

Oh B#gger,


Best wishes

Martin

[Geof]

Originally Posted by martinw ....Yes it would be cold, but I can't see that being asked to move from an economy class seat into a 500 mph wind would immediately kill me....

Within seconds. The first big example of these types of injuries was the World's worst terrorist attack prior to 9/11, the bombing of an Air India flight over the Irish Sea by Sikh extremists. The flailing injuries were the initial indication that the plane had ruptured midair not on water impact.

[martinw]

Originally Posted by Geof Within seconds. The first big example of these types of injuries was the World's worst terrorist attack prior to 9/11, the bombing of an Air India flight over the Irish Sea by Sikh extremists. The flailing injuries were the initial indication that the plane had ruptured midair not on water impact.

Dear Geof,

I know this thread is getting a trifle morbid, but I'm still curious as to why, if you are suddenly thrust from an aircraft going at 500mph into open air,why this should harm you terminally. The air around the aircraft will be entrained, so you should not meet a "brick wall" of still air. Anyway, at 30,000 feet, air is pretty thin, isn't it?

Perhaps we should call a halt on this... but I'm still curious.

Grimly yours

Best wishes

Martin

[joecnc1234]

I was watching mythbusters the other day and they found if you were in the kiss youre ass goodbye position you had a much greater chance of survival on impact.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by martinw ...Perhaps we should call a halt on this... but I'm still curious. Grimly yours Best wishes Martin

Essentially you flap like a flag in a breeze...a very stiff breeze I might add. Skin and flesh can flap and remain somewhat intact, bone fractures. Also the flapping causes all sorts of nasties to occur to blood vessels which tend to become leaky.

Google 'Flailing Injuries'.