dust ventilation system

[gto7419]

Ive been looking for a decent solution to the dust buildup Im getting in part of my workroom. I have no dust collection or exhaust system currently, and whenever I use my table saw, I get dust EVERYWHERE... The room almost fills with dust and I have to leave the room after a cut or two. My RF-45 clone is also in there, and I would prefer that it stayed clean...

I have looked at blowers from msc and grainger, but I am not really sure what I need.... I dont have a great spot to vent to either. Its a basement workroom, and the only way to get a duct outside would be to drill a 4-6" hole in a 10" beam that supports the house (not anxious to do that). I could run ducting to the other part of the workroom, but the ducting would have to be at least 20ft and I am not anxious to do that either...

This part of the workroom is roughly 15x15, but the boiler, hot water tank, oil heat tank, my mill, my table saw, a huge drill press, and some lumber occupy a lot of the space.

Any ideas for ventilating the room? Dust collection systems are not really what im looking for - I want to vent everything outside of the room.

Thanks, Danny

[ger21]

Dust collection is designed to capture the dust before it gets into the room. Once it's in the room, it's too late. Trying to vent the room will never do a really good job, as air flow will probably run from the room entrance, to the exhaust fan. Dust will still settle anywhere out if this direct path. And if you're only talking a 4-6" exhaust, I doubt it will get much at that. Imo, you'd be much better off trying to get the dust before it leaves the table saw. I have a small 1HP dust collector on my table saw, and you'd be amazed at how fast the bag will fill up. Without the dust collector, probably at least half of that dust would be spread throughout the room.

Having said that, it's very difficult to catch all the dust from a table saw, because maybe 20% will come out the top off the blade.

One other thing, dont ever cut a 4" hole in a support beam.

[gto7419]

I have a slight problem with dust collection, because I tend to cut a decent amount of MDF, and it releases chemicals which are not really that healthy for you... Dust collection doesnt stop the toxic fumes...

Danny

[ger21]

Neither does no dust collection. Aren't the chemicals in the dust itself?

[gto7419]

I am pretty sure when you cut MDF, it releases some sort of toxic fumes - not in large particles of dust, but smaller air born particles that dust collection systems cant trap.

[sploo]

I am pretty sure when you cut MDF, it releases some sort of toxic fumes...

I would suspect it'd be the binder, urea formaldehyde resin. Having said that, I don't know if that particular chemical is what's released, or how it's affected by the heat of cutting with power tools.

For information on dust collection, I'd strongly suggest looking at Bill Pentz's excellent site:
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Index.cfm

If memory serves me right, he notes that many DCs are really just chip collectors, as the really dangerous (small) particles pass straight through the filters, and back into your workshop.

I work with MDF too, and I'm certain my DC is little more than a chip collector, so I always wear an MDF certified canister mask (and eye protection). You may end up looking like Darth Vader's brother, but you only get one pair of lungs.

[bkukowski]

the only way to get a duct outside would be to drill a 4-6" hole in a 10" beam that supports the house...

...I want to vent everything outside of the room.

sounds like you need to find another way out.

[gto7419]

I would suspect it'd be the binder, urea formaldehyde resin. Having said that, I don't know if that particular chemical is what's released, or how it's affected by the heat of cutting with power tools.

For information on dust collection, I'd strongly suggest looking at Bill Pentz's excellent site:
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Index.cfm

If memory serves me right, he notes that many DCs are really just chip collectors, as the really dangerous (small) particles pass straight through the filters, and back into your workshop.

I work with MDF too, and I'm certain my DC is little more than a chip collector, so I always wear an MDF certified canister mask (and eye protection). You may end up looking like Darth Vader's brother, but you only get one pair of lungs.

That REALLY is an excellent site - I have a lot more reading to do, but thought I would post back here.

I am not sure what Im going to do yet, but I appreciate all the responses, and Ill post back when I start to build my system. 3000 heads are better than me and my dad

Thanks for all the replys,

Danny

[ironDigit]

i'ld suggest a shopvac on all machines with dustprobs

i guess you should be able too solve the chemicals prob by changing the dustfilter on your vac too a more suitable one that will trap smaller particles also i know that at my local vacshop(shop that sells only vacs and rlateds)got some pretty specific filters varying from particle too sandingdust and so on getting more expensive as the particles too be filtered get smaller that should keep your shop from being covered and a respitory protection is always recommendable when working with mdf,particle board and so on

[sdantonio]

Hi Danny

The Pentz site is great. I have also found a set of plans in shopnotes issue 13 for a cyclone that is slightly smaller than the pentz plans if you are cramped for overhead space. I could send them to you if you like, if you can handle a 24Meg attachment (the're larger than I can attach here and I would get a firm talking to about violating copyright if I posted them here). I could also try making it smaller.

It's modular if you need to break it down and move it around and they have plans for a fine particle post cyslone filter too using #10 cotton duck (available at most material shops and art supply stores).

Steven

[gto7419]

Actually, I would love those plans - I am still trying to get a system into my workshop. You have a PM!!!

Danny

[sploo]

Based on the mini cyclone available at www.clearvuecyclones.com I had a go at making one myself (from bits I had in the workshop).

It makes quite a number of compromises to the design - namely using 4" pipe inside a 6" cylinder (made by heating some perspex sheet with a heat gun!)

The red bit is part of a scavenged traffic cone!

It's very much a bodge job; made to see if this stuff really works. The answer is yes, though you can see from the video that some dust spirals the wrong way around the outlet tube. I'm sure this is because the tubes are way too big for the cylinder size.

Having said that - it does do a good job of separating dust. In the video, I'm throwing handfuls of wood dust into the inlet, and at the end, there was only a fine sprinkling on the bottom of my dust extractor bin.

It's certainly made me interested in making a slightly bigger one, but Bill's design is too big for my little workshop. Sdantonio - I've sent you a PM, and would love a copy of the cyclone plans!

http://spikyfish.com/cyclone/tube1.jpg
http://spikyfish.com/cyclone/tube2.jpg
http://spikyfish.com/cyclone/cyclone1.jpg
http://spikyfish.com/cyclone/cyclone2.jpg

The video is over 11MB, and 'on its side', as I was using my digital camera in portrait mode (not really suited to recording video).

http://spikyfish.com/cyclone/running.avi