Health & Bloody Safety !!!

[Routerfiend]

Hi all
U.K. health & safety executive are looking into the safety of flat bed routers ( The guarding thereof ) . Every time they visit they go all wobbly when they see one and "Ooooh that looks dangerous " Each time an new official come around to inspect they all seem to say the same thing ! They then go away and research them ( Or most likely not ) and then it`ll all go quiet for a few months or even years. The remarks are always the same you need to put a guard around them to stop people falling into them or being hit by the gantry. How do you accomplish that and still use them ???? Does anyone else suffer from the ignorance of officials trying to micro manage something the obviously don`t understand !!! How about in other countries or is it only the U.K. that routers are deemed dangerous . Is there a practical way of guarding these machines ? Thoughts anybody ?

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[CitizenOfDreams]

Pressure sensitive safety mat that e-stops the running router if someone walks too close. Not just for the inspector, but for your actual safety as well.

[RCaffin]

Does anyone else suffer from the ignorance of officials trying to micro manage something the obviously don`t understand !!!

All the time!!!! Especially OHS. And I am in Oz.

New safety rule for tractor-mounted slashers. There has to be a barrier at the rear to stop stones flying out backwards. All 17 slasher mfrs in Oz signed a joint letter to OHS saying that this was a dangerous idea. OHS ignored them.

So my new slasher turned up with rubber mat barrier around the rear. OK, wife takes it out into paddock. Grass can't get out the rear end any more, so it flies forwards, into the big rear wheel, where it was blocked. When the grass there built up to the solidity of a hay bale, it jammed the big tractor wheel and nearly flipped the tractor.

I rang the mfr, and was put through (rather quickly!) to the general manager. We had an interesting discussion, with him being more angry than me about it. Yeah, really! As he said, he could not tell me to take the rubber guard off, but the slasher used not to have one, and it worked just fine then.

I took the rubber guard off and shelved it. The slasher now works fine and SAFELY.

I am sure OHS is a good idea. I just wish they had some competent people there, instead of committees of bureaucrats.

Cheers
Roger

[ger21]

All the high end routers use either pressure mats, or a laser around the perimeter of the machine. Some have pressure sensitive foam bumpers on the moving parts that will stop the machine if it hits you.

[aarggh]

All the time!!!! Especially OHS. And I am in Oz.

I am sure OHS is a good idea. I just wish they had some competent people there, instead of committees of bureaucrats.

Cheers
Roger

Funny how the pencil pushers we have love to introduce changes for "the better" but they never seem to pass the common sense test in a lot of cases, where were the very basic OH&S rules for the Insulation Scheme we had a few years back! And yet no-one at any level was held accountable for what happened as a result.

cheers, Ian

[RCaffin]

The light curtains Gerry mentioned are commercially available and are often OHS-approved.
Cheers
Roger

[dharmic]

More'n one way to skin a cat when inspections go south because of dead head pen pushers.

[Routerfiend]

A few months back here in the U.K. a power station was being demolished when there was a premature collapse crushing several people and three are still missing in the wreckage ( The army engineers are being drafted in to recover the bodies ). " The health & safety executive are investigating " Why the hell were they not on site for the duration to make sure all were safe ?? As you may suspect , I have a theory. They weren`t on site because if it went pear shaped then they would have been accountable. And we can`t have that now can we. Again , if they were of any bloody use then they would have prevented the "accident from happening in the first place" Just a thought. Call me a cynic if you will !

[RCaffin]

Part of the overall problem is an assumption, which seems to trace back to America, that you can have such a thing as 'absolute safety', and that if there is any sort of accident at all then 'someone must be to blame'. This whole concept may be driven by the American Tort Lawyers and their propensity to sue over anything.
But reality is that stuff happens. Always has. Always will.

Cheers
Roger

[MConner]

Unfortunately I have to agree with you RC. The new word is "generation snowflake", those who want/expect others to protect them from everything.

[Tkamsker]

Routerfriend hi i was at an ce sign Training where it is Clear how the See it
There is an en 13xxx Regulation which does take care about Safety so if You have an toolchanger You Must House it if not You can -


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[Routerfiend]

Hi.
It`s not the tool changer that is the issue. It`s the movement of the gantry that they didn't like the look of. Unfortunately the term "Common sense " is a dirty word to these people. I must say ( tongue in cheek ) that Darwinism should prevail. meaning that if you can`t see what you are about to do could cause you harm then you owe it to humanity to eradicate your faulty genes from the gene pool !) But actually the more I think about it the more it appeals !!

[RCaffin]

You have of course heard of the Darwin Award? Quite an institution these days.
Cheers
Roger

[aarggh]

Speaking of the Darwin awards, I've seen a lot accidents and been involved in some myself over the years, but we had by far the worst scare one day at the mill I worked in years back. One of the hands thought it would be a great joke to put his hand inside one of the dust extraction covers on the machinery and pretend his hand was being sucked up. Imagine his shock when the guy closest to the emergency stop hit it as fast as he could, and all the machinery ground to an extremely noisy stop with the lumber jammed against the cutter heads, which brought the bosses down to see what the racket was, and while one guy was really paying out on him another unscrewed the dust extraction cover and he saw the large 200mm diameter cutting head full of nice sharp blades that must have been just millimeters from his hand!

When we saw him shove his hand in we thought for sure this was going to be pretty bad, he went white when he realised just close he was to losing his hand or most of his arm if it grabbed the shirt! Pretty scary stuff, not much in the way of OH&S then!

cheers, Ian

[CitizenOfDreams]

Part of the overall problem is an assumption, which seems to trace back to America, that you can have such a thing as 'absolute safety', and that if there is any sort of accident at all then 'someone must be to blame'.

You got to admit, many (if not most) accidents would not have happened if the user did not violate some safety rule. Or two. Or three.

[Jon.N.CNC]

Pressure sensitive safety mat that e-stops the running router if someone walks too close. Not just for the inspector, but for your actual safety as well.

Actual estop or feedhold? Loosing position every time those things are activated doesn't sound fun.

[CitizenOfDreams]

Actual estop or feedhold? Loosing position every time those things are activated doesn't sound fun.

I guess it depends on what would cost the company more, medical expenses and lawsuits or lost time to recalibrate the machine. :-)
The machines I dealt with (SCM Group woodworking routers) did e-stop when the barriers were violated.

[Routerfiend]

Yes indeed. I don`t like to see anyone suffer but some people you just can`t help no matter how many times you try and impress upon them the error of their ways. Sometimes you have to let them find out for themselves and hope they survive and have a better understanding. But the Darwin theory still holds true .....

[Jon.N.CNC]

I guess it depends on what would cost the company more, medical expenses and lawsuits or lost time to recalibrate the machine. :-)
The machines I dealt with (SCM Group woodworking routers) did e-stop when the barriers were violated.

Hmm yes, I suppose with a servo or closed loop setup the position could be maintained. Could just get everyone to sign a disclaimer. Problem solved.

[dharmic]

Could just get everyone to sign a disclaimer. Problem solved.

In Australia at least, and probably a lot of other countries, you cannot waive someone's duty of care. Particularly in the mining sector this leads to idiotic levels of paranoia from the OH&S goon squad.