CNC Fiberglass and Cabon fiber dust extration and filtration


Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: CNC Fiberglass and Cabon fiber dust extration and filtration

  1. #1
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Austalia
    Posts
    6
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default CNC Fiberglass and Cabon fiber dust extration and filtration

    Hi Guys,

    I've got a small home workshop setup in a room in my appartment with a ZenToolWorks CNC mill.
    I want to cut G10 fiberglass (Carbon fiber optional).

    Fiberglass when you're milling generates a bunch of nasty dust, so I want to setup a proper extraction and filtration system.

    Due to the location I am in, and the amount of space I have, I am considering the following setup:

    Hose from CNC head -> DIY Cyclone filter -> VAX domestic vacuum (cyclonic and HEPA)

    The info on each of these pieces are:
    DIY Cyclone filter:
    Oneida Molded DIY Dust Deputy Cyclone - Amazon.com

    VAX vaccum:
    Bagless Cylinder Vacuum | Products | Vax
    has a HEPA E12 filter
    has 320 air watts of suction (i.e. slightly more than 150 CFM)

    Obviously my main concern is health. Is E12 enough?
    My next concern, is will it work? 150CFM is plenty enough for most shop situations, so I believe it should have enough suction, and the DIY cyclone will trap any large pieces coming through the pipe before hitting the vac.

    My interest in the domestic vacuum is from a size, noise and reuse in other situations perspective.

    What do the more experienced CNCers out there think of the configuration?

    Thanks for your time

    Josh

    Similar Threads:


  2. #2
    Member JEST's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    227
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Am curious how you determined 150CFM from the 320AW listing. Do you have a true pressure or flow number, or just the AirWatt number?
    AirWatt is all fine and good as long as you have at least one of the variables.
    I have found that most residential vacuums have great "suction" (Pressure). Even an Oreck provides enough "suction" to hold a bowling ball...
    Point is, an AirWatt alone, is not enough data to make the decision. Is one of those statistical type terms that is too subjective to use alone.

    What is the CFM out of the filter, and then again after 10 minutes of cutting?



  3. #3
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Austalia
    Posts
    6
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Thanks for the response Jest,

    So, From anecdotal information, I'm told that a vac with around 150CFM should be fine. Like this one: Amazon.com: Shop-Vac 5866000 5-Gallon 4.5-Peak HP Stainless Steel Wet/Dry Vacuum: Home Improvement

    Now, most vac's in Aus (where I am) use cubic meters, and I was looking at the sheets for shopvac and found this:
    http://www.shopvac.com.au/images/product-5870851.pdf

    On that PDF, it states that their 4.8 m3/m ~= 310 Air watts
    So, what is 150 CFM in m3/m?
    1 CFM = 0.028 m3/m
    :.
    150 CFM = 4.2m3/m which is less than the 4.8 ~= 310 Air watts.

    Hence, my understanding that 150 CFM is fine, which is less than 320 Air watts.

    There is an assumption in there that conversion to air watts is a straight forward conversion. Which I'm not sure holds, but it seems reasonable. Do you know otherwise?

    Regarding the CFM out of the cyclone filter I don't know.
    But again, annecdotally, a double cyclone filter like that, followed by a shopvac with 150, was deemed adequate by others.

    What specific variables do you think I should worry about here? Do you think the CFM/airwatt conversion is inadequate?
    Also, can you comment on the E12 HEPA filter at all?

    Cheers

    Josh



  4. #4
    Member JEST's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    227
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Here is a basic breakdown of the airwatt game. Just a link... I am not even certain where this company is, and you are not looking for a central vac system

    Understanding Central Vacuum Airwatts
    Do NOT base your buying decision on “AIRWATTS”
    Perhaps the most commonly used performance term you will find advertised and promoted by vacuum sales people is "Airwatts".
    Airwatts is a term that became the popular performance benchmark of choice in the early part of 2000 with the introduction of “Airwatt Series” motors.
    Since these motors showed such high Airwatt numbers compared to previous generations, marketers jumped on the Airwatt band wagon to promote this as the new benchmark of central vacuum cleaning performance and indeed, Airwatts (when and only when measured at the motor) is a true measure of performance. However, Airwatts is a brilliantly disguised term because few truly understand it (least of all the consumer). It allows the manufacturer to use smaller less expensive motors yet publish high Airwatts in a product brochure giving the false perception that a unit has more cleaning power and is thus a better value. Sadly, Airwatts is term which has been used to blind consumers. If there is anything that we hope you learn from this guide, is not to use Airwatts as the basis for your purchase decision.
    Blah Blah. But more or less correct. Separate the filtering function from the airflow function. In order to maintain the airflow, you air going to need a commercial size output filter. On the surface, both vacuums you linked to, might be acceptable... If you can maintain that optimum airflow. Reduce/loose airflow, and the dust will fly...

    Hope you can follow the logic



  5. #5
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Austalia
    Posts
    6
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Ok, thanks Jest

    So I need to find some way to compare those two Vacs. Since both are most likely fudging their specs.

    I guess my only option would be to somehow hunt down more anecdotal evidence.

    Can anyone comment on whether an E12 filter is good enough?



  6. #6
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    1
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I work at a facility that specializes in carbon fiber machining (we occasionally cut fiberglass as well), and I have to say, we avoid cutting dry at all costs.
    If you have the option to make a flood coolant system instead of a vacuum, I highly recommend it.
    If you do it right, it can costs about the same and you will have better results in terms of health safety with flood coolant vs. vacuum.
    Just my .2c



  7. #7
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    783
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I cut a ton of carbon sheet, mostly .5-1mm thick, and simply do it under a few mm of water with a few drops of dish soap in it. I suck the nasty water out of the tray with a vacuum pump hooked to a strong tupperware style container with a few hoses run to it, the solids settle to the bottom and I skim the clear water off the top and rinse it down the drain. Solids get bagged while wet and thrown in the trash. No dust, no extra noise.

    making dust at the machine or not, if kept dry you still have to deal with it in open air to empty the vacuum canister, everything around your apartments dumpster will be coated with carbon and glass dust eventually.

    The aftermath of cutting approx 600 pieces out of .5mm sheet, a 3 hour job, with 12 bit changes due to wearing out the 1mm fish tail diamond cut router burrs.

    http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/04/5yzu7ebu.jpg

    The parts http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/04/aha3a3yz.jpg

    Sent from tapatalk



  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2134
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I can't comment on dry vs wet machining, but I can say if you get the Dust Deputy you won't find a better cyclonic filter. I use one with my Festool extractor, and the design is the best around, and requires very little extractor power to operate very efficiently.

    cheers, Ian

    Last edited by aarggh; 09-04-2013 at 06:54 AM. Reason: left out word
    It's a state of mind!


  9. #9
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Austalia
    Posts
    6
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Ok,
    Well in my situation, I don't think I can build a wet milling environment, since the Y axis is driven from under the bed, I need sacrificial material underneath the cut material, and adding a tray to the milling bed means the original material can't be a sheet larger than the bed and makes clamping far more tricky... I've tried looking around and don't see anyone tackling this problem.

    So in a Dry environment. Can anyone comment on the use of a HEPA E12 filter for fiberglass? Most people say get a HEPA filter for carbon and fiber milling, great, but HEPA in the US means one thing, and HEPA in the EU means a whole bunch of things. What grade of EU HEPA do people use for carbon and fiberglass dust?

    Does anyone know any basic stats that I should be looking for in a Vac that will be collecting dust on a home style CNC Mill? (Again, I'm using a zentoolworks 12").
    It doesn't move very fast, and doesn't generate much waste in the cutting. Also, the Spindle RPM isn't very high (8000 max)

    The key factor is obviously capturing all the dust. Which it may be possible for me to develop a dust skirt for the head to capture any dust escaping at high velocity...

    Again, Thanks for the thoughts!



  10. #10
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Austalia
    Posts
    6
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Actually, I take that back.

    I could probably cut up the fiberglass sheet smaller using a dremel and a respirator.
    Then it could fit inside a baking tray, mounted to the bed of the mill. Then I could use nonslip matting between the tray and the G10 sheet, and clamp it down to the tray using rare earth magnets.

    Then I could put water in the tray to 2mm depth above the surface of the fiberglass...

    All that would remain is the removal of the water as an issue.... How does one remove the water?



  11. #11
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Austalia
    Posts
    6
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Hey guys,

    So, I believe I have solved my problems. So I thought I would come back here and let people know my solution so others can benefit.

    The solution is mostly derived from Dylwad's post above, as it got me thinking, "If only I could cut under a few MM of water" so many thanks for posting even though you weren't particularly answering my questions, you managed to see my problem and suggest another path! Thanks!

    The solution:
    Mount a baking tray onto my milling platform. Secure with bolts/wingnuts.
    Lay some 'non-slip matting' from local hardware store in it. (The stuff to stop stuff sliding around in your drawers in the kitchen).
    Lay the fiberglass over the non slip matting.
    Place rare-earth magnets in strategic positions to clamp the material down, and stop it from sliding around.
    Pour water into the baking tray until the fiberglass is a few mm under the surface of the water.

    Cleanup:
    Use a vacuum to vacuum out the water and wet fiberglass dust from the tray.
    catch the water in a tupperware container as Dylwad suggests. (I've put two garden water tank pipe attachments in the lid).
    Let the water/dust settle in the tupperware container.
    get the wet dust and dispose of it in bags/old takeaway containers, out to the trash.

    No dust
    Thanks for the thoughts!

    CNC Fiberglass and Cabon fiber dust extration and filtration-r0019852-jpg



  12. #12
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    783
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Glad it worked out for you

    Sent from tapatalk



  13. #13
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    37
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: CNC Fiberglass and Cabon fiber dust extration and filtration

    Quote Originally Posted by Bildozer View Post
    I work at a facility that specializes in carbon fiber machining (we occasionally cut fiberglass as well), and I have to say, we avoid cutting dry at all costs.
    If you have the option to make a flood coolant system instead of a vacuum, I highly recommend it.
    If you do it right, it can costs about the same and you will have better results in terms of health safety with flood coolant vs. vacuum.
    Just my .2c
    What size micron filters do you use to filter the fiberglass from the coolant?



Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

CNC Fiberglass and Cabon fiber dust extration and filtration

CNC Fiberglass and Cabon fiber dust extration and filtration