Newbie to rhino- please help.


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: Newbie to rhino- please help.

  1. #1
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    100
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Newbie to rhino- please help.

    greetings rhino users. I am a newbie to Rhino and am curious about a couple things.

    I am trying to create a concave recess on the face of an object but every time i do, it wont let me trim the excess off AND its convex, not concave. I know its kind of a general question, and its tough to suggest a solution without seeing the actual drawing... and since i dont know how to show the drawing, ill show what i am referencing. I am currently drawing the buckle. I have the whole thing draw, except the recess around the center dial.

    I do have one version drawn that has the convex recess- but it has a section that wont delete, and is not selectable... but its there..

    http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/2179/cimg3586ur3.jpg
    http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/c...jpg/1/w640.png

    Similar Threads:


  2. #2
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    100
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Update- I have actually got the surface to be more concave by messing with the stiffness of the patch...so that might be all set... but it sill wont let me trim it nicely....



  3. #3
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    436
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Without seeing your drawing, I am making a few assumptions. Please forgive me.

    For drawing that buckle, I believe you will have better luck using the boolean difference functions. This is done by drawing two solids, one is the main part of the buckle, and the other is the 3-d shape that you want to subtract (or gouge) out of it.

    This will automatically trim the edges for you.

    For making the 3d shape that you want to subtract, I would create a sphere first. Then, I would "rebuild" it to get more control points. Using control point editing, I would flatten the sphere, and drag the upper corners out a bit.

    Good luck,

    Rob



  4. #4
    Registered mc-motorsports's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1084
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Though you guys would find this interesting.
    http://www.novedge.com/documents/3247/SKU/2555



  5. #5
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    100
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mc-motorsports View Post
    Though you guys would find this interesting.
    http://www.novedge.com/documents/3247/SKU/2555
    Wow.



    I am LEAGUES away from that. Shows the power of the program though.

    I drew my drawing out by eye.. but im betting the way to do it is to start with the pic.. huh?


    I was able to get the drawing where it needed to be, but i now have a new project no thanks to mc-motorsports


    and the bottom line is that i have about 1 month experience with this program and NO background other than 10 years ago running R14 in tech in highschool... so- its all uphill.

    thanks for your replies..
    Keith



  6. #6
    Registered mc-motorsports's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1084
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Note that they were using a plug-in with Rhino. It was actually a link I recieved via email advertising for the T-Spline plug-in, which looks very useful in the right place.

    But that's what I love about Rhino, it's very powerful, affordable, and you can build off the base software with plug-ins that relate directly to your needs... Instead of spending $5k plus on the competetor's software.

    We all had our first month of learning CAD, your trying for some pretty advanced stuff already! Good luck, after 13 years, I'm still learning, but that's the fun part.



  7. #7
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    100
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Here is what i came up with from eye... its a little rough as i dont know how to make curves except through control points.. so this whole drawing was done that way.. the center part in the picture (black) was done in a separate drawing..

    So this in essence was done using clever- rather than wisdom. LOL

    not bad, for just getting into this. Plus i figure, with the roughness.. its going to have to be finished by hand either way to get the machining marks out of it... but i would LOVE to be able to do this properly...


    http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/9924/phot1wb1.jpg
    http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/pho...jpg/1/w640.png



  8. #8
    Registered mc-motorsports's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1084
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    You didn't want to use a bitmap image background? I figured you would want to make it as close to the pic you posted.

    Do you have the belt buckle in your hand? Or are you just going off the picture? If your just using the picture, I would start by tracing a bitmap background and you just have to fake it and fudge it from there. If you gave 10 of us that picture, we would all have our own way or making a 3D model.

    So your going to cut one? Do you have a CNC mill? Just an idea, when you have your final drawing, post over in the RFQ section and see how much it would cost to have someone make it for you on a 3d printer.

    Looking good!



  9. #9
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    100
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mc-motorsports View Post
    You didn't want to use a bitmap image background? I figured you would want to make it as close to the pic you posted.

    Do you have the belt buckle in your hand? Or are you just going off the picture? If your just using the picture, I would start by tracing a bitmap background and you just have to fake it and fudge it from there. If you gave 10 of us that picture, we would all have our own way or making a 3D model.

    So your going to cut one? Do you have a CNC mill? Just an idea, when you have your final drawing, post over in the RFQ section and see how much it would cost to have someone make it for you on a 3d printer.

    Looking good!

    Didnt want to use a bitmap image background?

    LOL.. i didnt know I could.. LOL

    yes i have a mill, and im actually in the process of cutting one out now..

    No, no buckle in hand, just going from picture...

    I will be trying using the pic next.. uhm.. if someone can give me a GOOOD shove in the proper direction..



  10. #10
    Registered mc-motorsports's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1084
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I'm still using Rhino 3.0 because if I upgrade, I also have to pay to upgrade RhinoCam, decided to leave good enough alone for now.

    BUT,

    Type in BackgroundBitMap
    enter
    P for place
    select your picture
    then either drag a window or choose the corner coordinates of the box that the picture will appear in.

    There are a bunch of things you can do from here. What I would do is make the picture HUGE, trace it out with curves, lines, splines, what ever and when your done...
    type BackgroundBitMap (again)
    press V for Visable, this will hide the image
    then scale your curves down to production size. By making the picture HUGE at first, when you scale it down, it will smooth out the lines, curves and splines... VS a small picture and having to scale it up, you can only expect it to get rougher.

    Let us know how you make out. If I confused you, just let me know.



  11. #11
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    100
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mc-motorsports View Post
    I'm still using Rhino 3.0 because if I upgrade, I also have to pay to upgrade RhinoCam, decided to leave good enough alone for now.

    BUT,

    Type in BackgroundBitMap
    enter
    P for place
    select your picture
    then either drag a window or choose the corner coordinates of the box that the picture will appear in.

    There are a bunch of things you can do from here. What I would do is make the picture HUGE, trace it out with curves, lines, splines, what ever and when your done...
    type BackgroundBitMap (again)
    press V for Visable, this will hide the image
    then scale your curves down to production size. By making the picture HUGE at first, when you scale it down, it will smooth out the lines, curves and splines... VS a small picture and having to scale it up, you can only expect it to get rougher.

    Let us know how you make out. If I confused you, just let me know.

    I think im going to owe you more than one beer after all of this! LOL..

    thats awesome. Next on the drawing board is doing it your way. Ill get started on it later this week.

    thank you so much.

    Keith



  12. #12
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    264
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    What I would do is make the picture HUGE, trace it out with curves, lines, splines, what ever and when your done... By making the picture HUGE at first, when you scale it down, it will smooth out the lines, curves and splines...
    I would not agree 100% with this. Certainly, you should make your image hi-res enough so that at the tracing size, the pixel are not huge squares.... But it's just a guide for your tracing, you don't need to make it humongously large.

    The idea of tracing at a large scale and then scaling down to "smooth things out" doesn't work - what you want are good clean curves with the minimum number of control points and a good curvature graph if possible. Scaling the curves has no effect on smoothing, the control point structure is just scaled with it.

    Creating smooth curves either from scratch or by tracing over something is a bit of an art form in Rhino that needs to be learned. The Rhino manual does have some tutorials for this IIRC... --ch



  13. #13
    Registered mc-motorsports's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1084
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chmillman View Post
    I would not agree 100% with this. Certainly, you should make your image hi-res enough so that at the tracing size, the pixel are not huge squares.... But it's just a guide for your tracing, you don't need to make it humongously large.

    The idea of tracing at a large scale and then scaling down to "smooth things out" doesn't work - what you want are good clean curves with the minimum number of control points and a good curvature graph if possible. Scaling the curves has no effect on smoothing, the control point structure is just scaled with it.

    Creating smooth curves either from scratch or by tracing over something is a bit of an art form in Rhino that needs to be learned. The Rhino manual does have some tutorials for this IIRC... --ch
    So if you imported a picture of the belt buckle and just say that the picture is scaled to .1" accross, then you would trace the picture and scale it to 3" X 5". And that would be better than starting off with a picture scaled at 12" accross and scaling it down?
    I don't agree with that, but it comes back to 10 people doing it 10 diffrent ways.
    Scaling the curves down would have the effect of intol/outol being less than much less than .001" total which is fine for what he's doing.
    Plus for a part like this, the G-code will be output as linear segments.
    Just something to think about.



  14. #14
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    264
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    So if you imported a picture of the belt buckle and just say that the picture is scaled to .1" accross, then you would trace the picture and scale it to 3" X 5". And that would be better than starting off with a picture scaled at 12" accross and scaling it down?
    I didn't say that. But just for the sake of argument, let's say we did do what you said. Let's see what happens... First, one has to have a VERY high resolution image if it's only 0.1" for a 3" object... Otherwise the image will be useless to trace. Remember, actual physical size is meaningless with a digital image - all that matters is how many pixels it has. If the image offers you enough resolution to accurately trace it at the scale you need, then you're fine. It doesn't matter if you trace something at 0.1" or 10" if you place the control points the same way in relation to the image.

    You can scale the image to any size you need. But there is really no need to scale it to 5-10x the actual size of the object. The most logical is to scale it to the exact size you need. This way you have a better gauge of what you're creating. If the image resolution is fine enough to trace at this size, fine. Scaling the image up from there won't help you at all, it only makes the pixels bigger.

    At any time if you need to look at a detail area, you can zoom in. That neither affects the scale at which you're drawing nor the resolution of the image, you are just looking closer. The image pixels will get bigger when you do, if the image is of adequate resolution, there will still be no problem.

    Given an image of a certain pixel resolution and a certain size of an object you need to make from that image, the relationship is fixed. Scaling both the picture up and the drawing scale up at the same time doesn't help you any more than just zooming in...

    What I'm saying is that it's much more important HOW you draw the curves. Most people think the more points you place, the better it is. Actually, the opposite is true if you want good, clean geometry. The accuracy of your drawing is only limited to how well you can place your geometry in relation to the background image.

    As far as the CAM end of it goes, how closely your CAM system fits G1's to your drawn splines is up to you (as well as up to the capacity of your machine to correctly interpret them). --ch



  15. #15
    Registered mc-motorsports's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1084
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chmillman View Post
    I didn't say that. But just for the sake of argument, let's say we did do what you said. Let's see what happens... First, one has to have a VERY high resolution image if it's only 0.1" for a 3" object... Otherwise the image will be useless to trace. Remember, actual physical size is meaningless with a digital image - all that matters is how many pixels it has. If the image offers you enough resolution to accurately trace it at the scale you need, then you're fine. It doesn't matter if you trace something at 0.1" or 10" if you place the control points the same way in relation to the image.

    You can scale the image to any size you need. But there is really no need to scale it to 5-10x the actual size of the object. The most logical is to scale it to the exact size you need. This way you have a better gauge of what you're creating. If the image resolution is fine enough to trace at this size, fine. Scaling the image up from there won't help you at all, it only makes the pixels bigger.

    At any time if you need to look at a detail area, you can zoom in. That neither affects the scale at which you're drawing nor the resolution of the image, you are just looking closer. The image pixels will get bigger when you do, if the image is of adequate resolution, there will still be no problem.

    Given an image of a certain pixel resolution and a certain size of an object you need to make from that image, the relationship is fixed. Scaling both the picture up and the drawing scale up at the same time doesn't help you any more than just zooming in...

    What I'm saying is that it's much more important HOW you draw the curves. Most people think the more points you place, the better it is. Actually, the opposite is true if you want good, clean geometry. The accuracy of your drawing is only limited to how well you can place your geometry in relation to the background image.

    As far as the CAM end of it goes, how closely your CAM system fits G1's to your drawn splines is up to you (as well as up to the capacity of your machine to correctly interpret them). --ch

    I'll agree with most of what you said. It is correct that your better to draw an arc rather than a line with 25 control points. And I would use 3 point circles for most of the radius' for the picture shown... But that's not always possible or sometimes feesable, the way that I described it was more general purpose that would apply to anything.
    Explaining the scaling thing is about impossible on an email forum, did the best I can as I believe using single curves would even still benefit. I honestly think you would agree with me if we sat together, but again, I agree that single curves are better than splines or a control point curve.
    In the defense of my first statment, using scaling as I mentioned would keep the intol/outol far less than the machine resolution or what would matter for what he's doing. Plus concider that if he had the capabilities and equiptment to produce a mirror finish mold when it came off the machine (which is possible and I have seen with my own eyes for anyone who would question me), he wouldn't use a background bitmap of an internet picture.
    The attached rendering was done with both simple curves and splines, originally made from tracing scanned pictures of gaskets and I used scaling as mentioned to smooth out splines and control point curves where it made life easier. The finished product came out very nice I might add. BUT, if you were to EXPLODE the drawing, you would have a million segments.
    10 people doing things 10 diffrent ways.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Newbie to rhino- please help.-nautilus-manifold8-jpg   Newbie to rhino- please help.-nautilus-manifold5-jpg-jpg  


  16. #16
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    100
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I think it came out Okay.

    You can see how much i need to improve my Rhino Skills. But this is only the first month. I mean, it was only about a month ago i even concieved the idea of buying a mill.. and drawing.. So to go 0-60 this fast, I have to pat my self on the back

    I am now about to attempt importing and tracing the image because i dont know if i am 100% happy with a few things on this one. I will definately cast this and rework it with a block.. but there will definitely be at least one more crack at this.
    This, BTW took about 36 hours to run off. I would really like my mill to work faster..LOL..

    I can also see both sides of it (blowing the pic up and just scaling up the tracing).. i think both would be sufficient. Fortunately, i have some very high res pics.. so i will just blow them up.

    Uhm.. cough... scaling down? Nudge in the right direction? Drawing better curves?? LOL... again, a nudge would be SUPER appreciated.

    Thanks again guys. I am glad there are so many helpful guys around. I am involved in some hobbies that help is slim at best. This is a breath of fresh air.

    Keith

    http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3...tbucklelu1.jpg
    http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1...jpg/1/w640.png



  17. #17
    Registered mc-motorsports's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1084
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    is that a picture of the one you cut? looks really smooth. 36 hours? What were the parameters? What CAM operations did you use? Speed and feed? Step Over?



  18. #18
    Registered mc-motorsports's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1084
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    BTW, you did that after 1 month? Never used CAD/CAM or a CNC mill before? What do you do for a living? Just curious, how old are you? I'm 31, just wondering.

    MC



  19. #19
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    100
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Well, its the 2nd thing i ever drew, and the 2nd thing i ran on a mill. The first was the insert that drops into this. But, i have to re do it.


    Do you honestly want to know what I do? I am in private security for Citi bank..--- in essence, i graduated in 2003 with an A.A.S in Criminal Justice, and 11.00/hr is about the best that can be done with that.. unless you take a civil svc exam and luck out. So I have not followed up with looking for a career in it.

    SO-- after 5 years of dead end jobs, and trying to get into the Telephone Company (mother is a retired fiber optics splicer- who knows everyone- yet cant seem to get me a break in there) I have returned to school... i am just finishing up my first semester at the University at Buffalo, HOPING to be able to pull together a BS in ME. Its what im wired for anyway. I have an aptitude for making things, figuring things out--- I just got the highest grade on my chem mid term-- yet i have NO CLUE what i am doing in Chem. I have a 96% avg in Math, yet today I stayed after class because I am completely lost in math.. this is one of the top research schools in the country.

    I think the mill has played a part in my being a little unfocused -- the last few weeks in school.

    People joke that the movie Iron Man is about me... good lookin cocky young man (I am, at least) who can build anything, who loves women (im married-- but 10 years ago ..etc... only difference is that i am FAR from rich. Plus, if i had to pick.. it'd be Bruce Wayne

    Anyway, i took cad in High School (when i showed up) and this was in the early- mid 90's... SO-- yes, basically- i have never done this before.

    mill parameters.. LMAO>. I am dying to know what to set this thing to. It shouldnt take that long, should it? Gees, I sculpted my first attempt at this belt.. and it didnt take as long to make (jk) I have the motor speeds at like 22, the feedrate at 4.5.. but i usually overide that to about 6... and my step over on the finishing path was .001. I used a .125 ball end mill and then a .062 ball end mill.


    Oh, yes, i should mention that. Last december I attempted sculpting-- this was the first version of this belt that i made. It was cast in plastic, drilled, linked with 2x.125" dowel pins and all stainless hardware... and the accessories are all magnetic-- as is the rear closure. Up until this point, i have never done anything like this. So== The new belt i am making will be much better than this-- it has to be.. just natural progression. I figured the only way to top it was to make it the same way as the original. Milled. So-- now i am learning this

    http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/1...dedbeltlq8.jpg
    http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/1...53a6c960c6.jpg

    you can see my build progress on www.myspace.com/kbillan

    I am 29, also was a well known RC Racer for a while... just was told my main sponsor was dumping me.. i guess that happens when you dont race for 2 years LOL... oh well.

    Guitar player.. collector of many things... hockey player.. im into everything...



  20. #20
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    100
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Oh an BTW, i just put my image into Rhino.. OMG.. you would think i already did it this way. Very close. Infact, the top of the thing is dead nuts, the bottom is just a little wide.. the center relief is like 97% perfect.


    Redoing it now. I just need to know how to build its thickness. That vid you posted was fascinating.

    Also, Rhino is so much nicer with a mouse. I drew everything until right now on my Macbook, with the touchpad.. (parallels/vista)

    Just to let you know, the mouse scrolling is much nicer, the zoom with the mouse and the view changes.. MUCH appreciated. Rhino is awesome... compared to PAINT, what i usually draw in LMAO.

    oh, and i dont know if i posted this here.. my Macbook (1yr, 2 months old) the HD took a crap on wed.. lost this buckles drawing. All i have is an early version that is just outlines.. and the center dial..



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

Newbie to rhino- please help.

Newbie to rhino- please help.