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    Default ZX7045 new build

    Hi guys, I'm thinking about buying a new ZX7045 mill to convert it for CNC I have a few questions though...

    Well in my area this machine it's the best I can find and it looks very capable... I'd read a LOT on this forum about the machine and I've a few questions...

    first of all, motors... what kind of motors should I get for these? I was thinking to use some NEMA34 steppers but most of topics I'd seen use servos I just want to spend the money once (I'd learn my lessen with my router build) so I was thinking to use either some Leadshine hybrid steppers or maybe some servos either from leadshine or DMM... and what power should use? 400w or 750? waiting for some input here...

    ballscrews? I'm thinking either some hiwin ballscrews or TBI C5... what are the maximum diameters I can get on the axis of this machine? I see lots of people using 16mm on XY and 20 on Z, I would like to use 20 on all axis or even 25mm on Z...

    about the spindle, the machine I can get is MT4 spindle, later I'm thinking to add fast change feature so i'm thinking to get a 3/4 collet for the MT4 and use something like Tormach TTS system but that is for later on...
    about spindle motor, for starting I'll be using the original motor, it's a 3 phase 1.5HP motor, don't know the speed but my guess is around 1750rpm... for later I intend to get something use a VFD and get a more adequate motor so I want to know what you advice here...

    that's all for now, I intend to mill mostly stainless steel and aluminum. maybe some titanium too...

    thanks for your time.

    I'm in europe so if you recomend something and you know where I can get it here it's great

    best regards

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  2. #2
    Member ninefinger's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZX7045 new build

    If you are buying a new machine then work hard on the distributor to have it supplied with the spindle of your choice, i.e an ISO30 / BT30 spindle should be readily available for these machines (better for europe I believe) or R8 (more USA), but not MT4 which will be a real pain for tool changes.

    A general note about what I've written below - I believe in a "balanced" design, not overkill on one thing and limited on another. No point doing that as the added capability is often never used and can often be detrimental overall.

    For ball screws, there will be no difference between the 16mm and 20mm on X and Y except to make it harder (a lot harder) to fit the X if you go bigger. Y is relatively short so has perhaps a very small benefit for the 20mm if you run it unsupported at one end (might be less prone to whip at very high speeds) but I don't notice on mine any problems (unsupported 16mm on Y).
    The bigger you go the more money you will spend...on end support bearings too.
    As for steppers vrs AC servos vrs ? Looks like the Leadshine offering might get my vote now based on my past experience. Steppers (ie higher torque at low speeds, less torque at high speeds) can direct drive a ballscrew, versus belt and pulley for servos (which I did). At the end of the day both will do the job equally well, but the steppers in this case will likely be an easier fit, and maybe a touch less costly due to not needing 6 pulleys and 3 belts.
    Also, the Leadshine is nice to be able to get AC powered drives (no extra power supply required - but only in the big sizes). Simplifies wiring.
    As for sizing - well, its your money but overkill means overpaying. 200 inches per minute sounds cool, until you try it on the Y axis from home position. In less than 2 seconds you're at the end of the travel - better have reliable limit switches! And limit switches won't protect you from crashes into your vice, workpiece, etc. More power = more broken!
    To be realistic, you don't need alot of power on X and Y. I have DC servos rated at 50 oz-in with 4:1 reduction (ie 200 oz-in at the ballscrew) and can accelerate very quickly and go too fast for my liking (120 inches per minute) Because steppers have a different torque curve you need a higher torque rating to not have the torque drop off too much at speed, but a 600 oz-in is plenty for x and y.
    Thats enough for now.

    Mike



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    Default Re: ZX7045 new build

    Quote Originally Posted by ninefinger View Post
    If you are buying a new machine then work hard on the distributor to have it supplied with the spindle of your choice, i.e an ISO30 / BT30 spindle should be readily available for these machines (better for europe I believe) or R8 (more USA), but not MT4 which will be a real pain for tool changes.

    A general note about what I've written below - I believe in a "balanced" design, not overkill on one thing and limited on another. No point doing that as the added capability is often never used and can often be detrimental overall.

    For ball screws, there will be no difference between the 16mm and 20mm on X and Y except to make it harder (a lot harder) to fit the X if you go bigger. Y is relatively short so has perhaps a very small benefit for the 20mm if you run it unsupported at one end (might be less prone to whip at very high speeds) but I don't notice on mine any problems (unsupported 16mm on Y).
    The bigger you go the more money you will spend...on end support bearings too.
    As for steppers vrs AC servos vrs ? Looks like the Leadshine offering might get my vote now based on my past experience. Steppers (ie higher torque at low speeds, less torque at high speeds) can direct drive a ballscrew, versus belt and pulley for servos (which I did). At the end of the day both will do the job equally well, but the steppers in this case will likely be an easier fit, and maybe a touch less costly due to not needing 6 pulleys and 3 belts.
    Also, the Leadshine is nice to be able to get AC powered drives (no extra power supply required - but only in the big sizes). Simplifies wiring.
    As for sizing - well, its your money but overkill means overpaying. 200 inches per minute sounds cool, until you try it on the Y axis from home position. In less than 2 seconds you're at the end of the travel - better have reliable limit switches! And limit switches won't protect you from crashes into your vice, workpiece, etc. More power = more broken!
    To be realistic, you don't need alot of power on X and Y. I have DC servos rated at 50 oz-in with 4:1 reduction (ie 200 oz-in at the ballscrew) and can accelerate very quickly and go too fast for my liking (120 inches per minute) Because steppers have a different torque curve you need a higher torque rating to not have the torque drop off too much at speed, but a 600 oz-in is plenty for x and y.
    Thats enough for now.

    Mike
    thanks for the answering Mike, yeah that's my thinking too... so for the ballscrews it's set, 16mm for XY and 20mm for Z with 5mm pitch...

    on motors I agree with you, speed is not very critical on this machine I think, I'm building this machine for brute machining not speed machining, for my calculations with 4Nm hybrid steppers from leadshine I'll get full torque until about 300RPM with 60-70% current, 300rpm at 5mm pitch is about 1500mpm (about 60IPM) I think that's plenty for cutting speed on this machine... and 8NM at the Z axis... About the rapid speed.... yeah 200IPM is just to much for this machine size, I'm not cofortable with so much speed, it's great when everything goes well, but things will get real ugly when it goes to the wrong side... but I'll have to think which motors to buy, like you said those HV drivers are great because no need for extra PSU, I need some nice PSUs so it might compensate the extra cost to go with them both for price and simplicity... I can get the 4Nm motor + ES-D808 for 335€ and the 8Nm motor + ES-D808 for 380€ and will need the PSU also, so it would be at least 60€ for each... the HV drivers and 8NM motors cost about 585€ a set... I can see this getting real expensive... but.... I really have to think this thoroughly...

    about the spindle, I just saw the online catalog of the distributor, I should go to the store tomorrow to really talk in person to the guy but I don't think he can get me one of those... R8 would be my choose but like you said it's really unusual here in europe... I'm from Portugal and here it's a pain to get anything I really want inside the country, and get a 300kg package from another country can get real expensive really quickly XD

    but I think I can get to work with the 3/4 or 19mm collet...

    now waiting for some more inputs...



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    Default Re: ZX7045 new build

    no one else reply?

    just got response from DMM Tech guys they gave me a nice price on 3 750W servos + Dyn4 drivers and recomended direct drive with those... I'm a bit scared on that but want to hear from you guys...
    Right now my thinking is on leadshine system 3*ES-MH33480 motors + 3*ES-DH2306 the price of each set is about 600usd but I'd contacted them to see if they do some nicer price on a 3 set... the DMM system is a bit cheaper but will have customs taxes and most likely will have to make it with pulleys and belts so I guess it will be a better option the leadshine...



  5. #5
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    Default Re: ZX7045 new build

    If DMM says direct drive I'd believe them. The torque curve for the 750W servos is plenty healthy, with continuous torque of 2.4Nm (340 oz-in) and peak of 7.1Nm (1000 oz-in). Those are plenty strong enough for a mill this size direct drive. If anything you may choose a 2:1 reduction on Z but I don't think you would need it.

    I didn't realize the Dyn4 were also direct AC input - that is nice saving there too, not needing separate PSU.
    Good luck with the decision.

    Mike



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