Charter I.H. Clone build

[LeeWay]

Looks good. One thing you will see is that the bellows will fill up pretty fast. That will actually limit the Y travel until it's cleaned out. You will have to be on the ball with housekeeping. I had larger bellows on my 80 20 mill for awhile. That was an issue. I wore two of them out in a couple years. I reverted back to flat rubber sheet. Mine is attached to the bottom of the Z.

[Roadstercycle]

Looks good. One thing you will see is that the bellows will fill up pretty fast. That will actually limit the Y travel until it's cleaned out. You will have to be on the ball with housekeeping. I had larger bellows on my 80 20 mill for awhile. That was an issue. I wore two of them out in a couple years. I reverted back to flat rubber sheet. Mine is attached to the bottom of the Z.

I was wondering about that. So I guess I'll update it with a deflector shield that attaches to the back of the Y and sticks up a few inches to deflect the chips or possibly another thinner more flexible rubber sheet over the Tormach one. I like the Tormach because it seals pretty nicely. Thanks for the tip.

[Roadstercycle]

Looks good. One thing you will see is that the bellows will fill up pretty fast. That will actually limit the Y travel until it's cleaned out. You will have to be on the ball with housekeeping. I had larger bellows on my 80 20 mill for awhile. That was an issue. I wore two of them out in a couple years. I reverted back to flat rubber sheet. Mine is attached to the bottom of the Z.

Can you tell me where you found the flat rubber sheet you used?

[LeeWay]

I get it from Mcmaster Carr. Neoprene rubber sheet.
Not sure the thickness I used. Probably 1/16". It was about $20.00 or so for a 1' x 2' sheet.

It is basically like inner tube material.

[Sparky_NY]

Rubber roofing material works great, its very tough. A lot of large scraps go into the dumpster and can be had just for the asking.

I recently read where someone used the belting off a discarded treadmill. I have some of that, its only slightly thicker, much tougher but not as flexible.

[LeeWay]

I had some drops of rubber roofing for years that I got off of a job site. It was black. I was offered an end of roll white piece at one time, but did not have my truck that day. I kick myself for not taking it anyway. It took about 20 years and many projects, but I used it all up. I used some on my roof as a temp fix after a hurricane. It is still up there, but under steel roofing now. I actually tried to find it online. The brand name is Carlisle and the thickness was .063".
The neoprene sheet from Mcmaster is as close as I have found to being a match.

https://www.carlislesyntec.com/


It had been a while since I researched it, but check this out.
Carlisle TPO Edmp PVC Roofing 60mm 5' x 100' Roll 500 Sqft | eBay

Group buy or maybe make a few dollars selling smaller pieces for cnc machines?

[Roadstercycle]

I get it from Mcmaster Carr. Neoprene rubber sheet.
Not sure the thickness I used. Probably 1/16". It was about $20.00 or so for a 1' x 2' sheet.

It is basically like inner tube material.

Thanks Lee, I ordered some to try.

[buddydog]

Hi Roadstercycle. I have a new 12Z manual mill showing up this week and I really like your conversion( cost, retain manual, Y under the table, big steppers,etc.). I was wondering if you have a build list and the suppliers that could be posted? I know how it is when building something and maybe it would be to much trouble but thought I would ask. I think if I had the parts in hand I could probably work out the brackets based on your pictures. I would like your opinion about doing the job in stages (mainly for keeping the price down at any one time) as for instance starting with the ball screws and brackets as the first purchase/build and maybe keeping the mill a manual one for a while? I had read ball screws don't work well for manual? I will be moving my igauging setup and power X feed to the new mill from my RF31 so I can sell it to help finance the last part (that's my plan anyway). The plan would be to keep the RF31 until the brackets are made. My use is strictly hobby. Thank You.

[Roadstercycle]

Hi Roadstercycle. I have a new 12Z manual mill showing up this week and I really like your conversion( cost, retain manual, Y under the table, big steppers,etc.). I was wondering if you have a build list and the suppliers that could be posted? I know how it is when building something and maybe it would be to much trouble but thought I would ask. I think if I had the parts in hand I could probably work out the brackets based on your pictures. I would like your opinion about doing the job in stages (mainly for keeping the price down at any one time) as for instance starting with the ball screws and brackets as the first purchase/build and maybe keeping the mill a manual one for a while? I had read ball screws don't work well for manual? I will be moving my igauging setup and power X feed to the new mill from my RF31 so I can sell it to help finance the last part (that's my plan anyway). The plan would be to keep the RF31 until the brackets are made. My use is strictly hobby. Thank You.

Hi Buddy, This is where I got the ideas for my conversion and bought from the same places as him. rung fu clone RF-45 ZX45 cnc conversion | The Hobby-Machinist He has a nice build list, good reading too. I used the same motors and ordered from the same place. The ball screws, nuts and end bearing mounts I ordered from Automation technologies .com. I would very, extremely, suggest going with the double ball screw setups for the X and Y that are for sale on ebay. They are about $100 each but well worth it to help eliminate backlash. I ended up buying 2 more ball screws and adding them to mine, they work but in hind site I would have gone the double ball screws setup. Also in his build he went with 18 gauge 4 strand shielded cable, bump that up to 16 gauge, 4 strand shielded. On Ebay also, about the same price but I feel well worth the little extra to keep the wiring cooler on big jobs. My wires and motors run cool. Other than that, chunks of aluminum and start cutting and drilling. The sprockets and belts I got from SPI, I believe that's the name, they advertise here and everywhere it seems. If I missed something which I'm sure I did let me know.

[buddydog]

Thank you. That build you linked will be another 3 hour read tonight. :-) I do have some specific questions,maybe start with one part: the ball screw size (I think I can find that in your blog here) but I don't remember you saying what the lengths were? Yes I plan on the double ball nut. ALsospecifics on belt lengths and sprockets. With those in hand a person should be able to figure the mechanicals.

[Roadstercycle]

Thank you. That build you linked will be another 3 hour read tonight. :-) I do have some specific questions,maybe start with one part: the ball screw size (I think I can find that in your blog here) but I don't remember you saying what the lengths were? Yes I plan on the double ball nut. ALsospecifics on belt lengths and sprockets. With those in hand a person should be able to figure the mechanicals.

I can give you the lengths I ended up with but don't use mine to have custom lengths with both ends done. I bought mine with only the drive end finished and then cut and finished them myself. I have a lathe so it was no big deal for me. If you do it the way I did it then cut your length, then heat the end red hot to normalize it. You'll be able to cut that end a lot easier then, it's the free end so it does not need to be heat treated. I'll get the lengths in a bit.

[buddydog]

Thank you. I have an old grizzly 12X36 lathe and understand the annealing process and no hurry on my account on any of this but it does seem the ballscrews, nuts and mounts/bearings might be the first thing I should get when the money becomes available. Next motorize X and then I can sell the RF31 for more fun chips. I like the idea of steppers the way you have chosen to do it with brute force to minimize the chance of lost steps. Anyway sounds like a fun project to compliment the laser cutter and 3D printer.

[Roadstercycle]

Thank you. I have an old grizzly 12X36 lathe and understand the annealing process and no hurry on my account on any of this but it does seem the ballscrews, nuts and mounts/bearings might be the first thing I should get when the money becomes available. Next motorize X and then I can sell the RF31 for more fun chips. I like the idea of steppers the way you have chosen to do it with brute force to minimize the chance of lost steps. Anyway sounds like a fun project to compliment the laser cutter and 3D printer.

OK here is my lengths. I made them a bit longer as I don't want you to be short. Y axis = 32" X axis = 45" Z axis 32". On my X axis I hid the bearing blocks under the X axis table ends so they don't stick out. The 45" measure meant was if you where going to put them on the outside. I bought mine at Automation Technologies so just buy the closest stock size with 1 end done. Make sure you buy the closet ones but longer or is it's close let me know and I'll measure closer depending where your going to mount your bearing blocks.

[Roadstercycle]

After using the machine now quite a bit the most useful setup is the ability to shut off the power to the motors while in mach3. It gives the ability to reposition quickly without jogging back and forth and setting a new zero. The other thing I couldn't live without now is the Z axis control without turning on mach3 to run it. It's just a little circuit board that I wired in to give the Z motor step signals. Love it.

[buddydog]

Thank you for those numbers!! My mill arrived at the terminal today so I'm planning on the trip tomorrow to pick it up. Just a little over a week I think. Is your stepper/jog board a commercial unit? Maybe a good plan for me is to start with the X axis and maybe avoid stealing the power feed off the 31. ball screw, stepper, controller mount etc and assemble as a power feed? Shipping of course is the downside but paying-as-I go is the upside.

[buddydog]

Mills in the back of the pickup but I got home to late to open or unload it but I'm still pretty excited!

Still a little confused about the ball screws and nuts so if possible please tell me if this might be a good place to start?:
1oF ballscrew 1605 1500M Dia 16mm Pitch：5mm Length：1500mm with A Double Nut B | eBay

I would have to machine the ends and "capture them some how. Would those be the BF15's?

I forgot to mention this one would be for the X axis. Also it appears they come pre machined on the drive end so now I'm guessing a 60$ set of FK/FF15's would complete the set except for the mounts and then I could machine the "off" end to fit my own bearing design? Hope I have all this right.

One more edit here- I re read the earlier double ball nut posts and I think the one in the ebay link above is like what Ivette posted earlier. Not sure how it tightens to set backlash. It has what looks like a locking tab so maybe it turns one section for locking? I'll look around tonight and see if I can find a picture of a double nut set up like I think you used. I can't open a dxf file apparently.

This one looks more like what I think you bought but would need a second ball nut added to the mounting to take up lash?:
Brand New SFU 1605 1200mm End Machine ballscrew Single ballnut for CNC | eBay

[dracozny]

Mills in the back of the pickup but I got home to late to open or unload it but I'm still pretty excited!

Still a little confused about the ball screws and nuts so if possible please tell me if this might be a good place to start?:
1oF ballscrew 1605 1500M Dia 16mm Pitch：5mm Length：1500mm with A Double Nut B | eBay

I would have to machine the ends and "capture them some how. Would those be the BF15's?

I forgot to mention this one would be for the X axis. Also it appears they come pre machined on the drive end so now I'm guessing a 60$ set of FK/FF15's would complete the set except for the mounts and then I could machine the "off" end to fit my own bearing design? Hope I have all this right.

One more edit here- I re read the earlier double ball nut posts and I think the one in the ebay link above is like what Ivette posted earlier. Not sure how it tightens to set backlash. It has what looks like a locking tab so maybe it turns one section for locking? I'll look around tonight and see if I can find a picture of a double nut set up like I think you used. I can't open a dxf file apparently.

This one looks more like what I think you bought but would need a second ball nut added to the mounting to take up lash?:
Brand New SFU 1605 1200mm End Machine ballscrew Single ballnut for CNC | eBay

the first one you posted is the style you would want. to adjust the backlash(which is supposed to be preloaded) you would put a different size spacer or some bellville spring washers (which requires removing the following nut). you can get these cheaper with custom machining through linearmotionbearings2008 (aka Chai). just email him since he does not post the doublenuts on ebay. linearmotionbearings2008@aliyun.com

[buddydog]

Thank you for the reply. I'll email him. Do I want the 16mm? I looked under the X today and it's 1" acme! Maybe I should get 20 or even 25 mm?

[dracozny]

Thank you for the reply. I'll email him. Do I want the 16mm? I looked under the X today and it's 1" acme! Maybe I should get 20 or even 25 mm?

the ballnut is really the deciding factor, you should be able to cram the 20mm in the X and Y. a 25mm should fit in the column easy enough. the column overall should be the easiest to design. check out this link for dimensions and specs, they are all in metric.

[dracozny]

Thank you for the reply. I'll email him. Do I want the 16mm? I looked under the X today and it's 1" acme! Maybe I should get 20 or even 25 mm?

the ballnut is really the deciding factor, you should be able to cram the 20mm in the X and Y. a 25mm should fit in the column easy enough. the column overall should be the easiest to design. here is a pic for dimensions they are all in metric.