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Thread: Charter I.H. Clone build

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    New belts arrived and got them installed just temporally as I have to remove 2 sprockets and drill them for handles. When I built my last machine I decided to make it a combo CNC and hand mill. There's so many times I do quick jobs that I don't want to turn the computer on or write a program, makes life a lot easier. I also install a DRO set for doing this and for checking for missed steps. When I get done with a program and have it go to zero both the Mach 3 built in DRO and my external DRO should say zero. Tomorrow I will reinstall the column and head. Then I'll get it wired up for a test spin.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1608-jpg   Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1607-jpg   Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1606-jpg  


  2. #42
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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    Hey Roadster
    I stopped in to see how it's going. I have been a member here for years also, It's where I got most of my Ideas.
    Your build is looking nice. If you do decide after your up an running to add the dro as a reference let me know what you decided on.
    I have been giving it a thought to do the same just as a means of reference not wired into my control system.
    Keep us posted
    Steve



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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    Steve, I purchase a set from Ebay. The Sinpo set up. $490.00. I used Easson on my other machine and it was almost $1000 so I figured I'd give the Sinpo a shot. Good reviews. I'll get them in a week or so since I just ordered them. I'm curious, is there a way to hook scales into the system as encoders? I've always thought that was possible to get a feedback system but years ago there was no info.

    SINPO 3- axis digital readout for mill milling machine (complete DRO kit)

    Jack



  4. #44
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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    I was chasing the illusive no backlash always zero and it cant be caught by me lol
    I check into feedback systems years ago and there wasn't anything I was going to purchase for hobby use.
    my machine had to be learned and never trusted like any machine when first being used and I have found I am always machining within about .0015 to .0025 of my intended location.
    that is well within the specs of any part and when there are points that have to be exact it's time to measure and remeasure. I still use a boring head in my mill to make perfect circles for bearing seats
    and things requiring press fit. I cant see spending thousands of dollars on controllers, encoders and feed back systems on a low weight less ridged mill running $200 ball screws.
    I'd like the dro to make double checking easier, it would not make my machine more accurate if I could tie it into the system without great expense including a better machine.
    when you add in column flex, base rigidity, tool deflection z axis dovetail binding issues and all the other ghosts. in my personal opinion On a zx45 mill getting that crazy is like putting lipstick on a pig.
    I went for the best it can be for the least amount of money. put an indicator from the spindle to the table and push back on the head with it raised and see what it does, you will probably be a bit shocked.
    I love my zx45 and it does more than I really expected but I have to watch her she doesn't always mind and if I lack in my cleaning and oiling she will bite me in the bud.
    JMHO
    Steve

    Last edited by jumps4; 03-06-2015 at 12:01 PM.


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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    Roadster, nice build. Good choice on the Charter Oak Mill. I have table travel envy already.

    It's fun to see how everyone has a different way of doing things. I used the same stepper package as you and jumps4 but all my mounts for ballscrews and motors are different. Much of those decisions based on my space constraints but others based on my personal approach. The z-axis ballscrew is a perfect example. While mine is similar to jumps4 (took inspiration from him) I flipped the FK bearing block to transfer the load differently.I also added a spacer block to maintain all the full z travel.

    BTW, I have not had any stiction or backlash issues with the z as jumps4 has mentioned. My approach is to the have the z-gibs a little looser and deal with the extra head nod by shimming the column. The column is no longer perfectly perpendicular to the base but the degree of error is so small it has not been a problem.

    I'm curious why you chose to support the Y-ballscrew at the fixed end? What size ballscrews are you using?

    Jay



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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    Those Sinpo scales are glass encoders with a TTL output, 5um/0.0002”. They even give you a snazzy serial connector. should be simple enough to wire them in.



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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    Quote Originally Posted by dracozny View Post
    Those Sinpo scales are glass encoders with a TTL output, 5um/0.0002”. They even give you a snazzy serial connector. should be simple enough to wire them in.
    I've always wanted to try those, I'm just too worried the vibration from the machine will give me all kinds of positioning errors. Has anyone ever used them that you know of?



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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    Quote Originally Posted by CS900 View Post
    I've always wanted to try those, I'm just too worried the vibration from the machine will give me all kinds of positioning errors. Has anyone ever used them that you know of?
    Plenty of users have used glass scales without any complaints. As long as they are mounted in a solid level position so that chips cannot get into them you should be fine. Things that will kill your accuracy in these scales is improper mounting, chips getting into the encoder reader, and electrical noise. So make sure you have good grounding between the machine and the cable conduits. Use of an ohm meter across grounded points is imperative.
    Given your experience level here, I am sure you will have no problems.

    The main thing is, if you decide to run these directly to the controller, from what I have read you will not want to rely on them for commutation but for reference only. so you may find yourself using two sets of encoders, rotory on the motors or ball screws and then the linear on the table. JimDawson over at the other forum may have some insights on this since he runs some very expensive magnetic linear encoders from England on his machine for position feedback to the controller.



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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    I've been running Easson glass scales for years with no issues and I make a mess when making parts, never had an issue. The Easson scale are single seals if I remember correctly and the Sinpo are double sealed. So I'm sure they will be fine. Good reviews out there so that helped my decision besides price.



    Quote Originally Posted by dracozny View Post
    Plenty of users have used glass scales without any complaints. As long as they are mounted in a solid level position so that chips cannot get into them you should be fine. Things that will kill your accuracy in these scales is improper mounting, chips getting into the encoder reader, and electrical noise. So make sure you have good grounding between the machine and the cable conduits. Use of an ohm meter across grounded points is imperative.
    Given your experience level here, I am sure you will have no problems.

    The main thing is, if you decide to run these directly to the controller, from what I have read you will not want to rely on them for commutation but for reference only. so you may find yourself using two sets of encoders, rotory on the motors or ball screws and then the linear on the table. JimDawson over at the other forum may have some insights on this since he runs some very expensive magnetic linear encoders from England on his machine for position feedback to the controller.




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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    Lots of progress this weekend. Handles done, column back on, electrical box finished. I like handles for doing quick setups as I mentioned before. The computer box turned out great for the X-Y axis setup. I designed it to fit under the table in the front. I used the stock led to show when it's powered up. I also used a stock computer power supply to run the fans and give me 5 volts to the boards. You can use a power supply but you have to hook it up correctly with a load and ground the green wire to make it turn on, a motherboard usually does this but since it does not have one you have to improvise. The Z axis driver I mounted on the column up by the motor because of it's size. I'll get it running today as soon as I figure out the ethernet smooth stepper. I've read all the stuff, now just have to do it. Here's some pics.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1609-jpg   Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1614-jpg   Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1618-jpg   Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1620-jpg  

    Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1626-jpg   Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1628-jpg  


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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    Up and running today. Got the ethernet smooth stepper working very easily just by following directions, imagine that??? Cut some imaginary parts just to see functions and all looks good. I'm getting a stall on the X axis if I jog it too fast, I don't know if it's at it's limit or I don't have the motor tuned correctly?. It jogs about 75 ipm no problem, over that the stall and buzz. I tried the Y and Z to 100 ipm and could go faster it seems. I'll never cut anything faster than that so it's no big deal really. Now to wait for my DRO package so I can check backlash etc.



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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    Sounds like a slight tuning adjustment may be needed.



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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    Good Job man. I am planning to buy the Bolton ZX45 next year and start on the CNC conversion, Belt drive and pneumatic tool changer. Will follow your thread closely

    Last edited by maly-miller; 03-10-2015 at 04:10 PM.


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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    What is your acceleration set to? If thats too high they could stall as well. Once they are up and running its less likely to stall.



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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    I think that it could be that or sticky ways. I have not be able to play with it as I am installing the glass scales and DRO so I have it disabled at the moment. I'm hoping to have the scales done tomorrow then I can play some more. Thanks for the thought.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alax7 View Post
    What is your acceleration set to? If thats too high they could stall as well. Once they are up and running its less likely to stall.




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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    Quote Originally Posted by maly-miller View Post
    Good Job man. I am planning to buy the Bolton ZX45 next year and start on the CNC conversion, Belt drive and pneumatic tool changer. Will follow your thread closely

    Thank you maly-miller. Hopefully I can give you some worthwhile ideas. I looked at the Bolton ZX45 for a few weeks myself since they where local but I could not do without the 12 Y-axis. I'm running 8" on my RF31 CNC and it's just too small anymore. 1" extra on the Bolton was not going to do it for me so I had to go with the I.H. Charter. Glad I did, the Y is huge.



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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    I received the Sinpro DRO system Friday, I think I ordered last Saturday night, that was fast from China. It comes with so much worthless mounting stuff I'm going to do a little side track on the CNC build to show the DRO install. Short and sweet I hope then I'll get back to the CNC nitty gritty. I checked out the mounting today, now I know what i want to do. Tomorrow I'll mount the scales and show some pics of the brackets I came up with. They give you lots of brackets but honestly I have no idea how in the heck they want you to use them. Maybe I should read the directions????? It's funny that the instructions where for the Easson DRO and all the brackets are identical to the Easson I installed on my RF31. Hmmmmm what's that tell us. I did plug it in with one of the scales to see the read out and it looks great. The great thing they did send that easson did not was aluminum scale covers, nice and clean. I'm going to love the way they are in sight but hidden. So far I'm jazzed at $490.00 and free shipping (Ebay) ..... Here's a pic of the DRO mounted. You know if you think about it there is really no other way to be sure that after you cut a part with a cnc program (except faith) to be able to see if you nailed the cut. When I zero my mach program to start a cut and zero the glass scales at the same time, when I'm done running the part and tell mach 3 to go to zero both the glass scales and Mach3 better be zero or say within .001 depending on your backlash, then I know where I'm at.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1635-jpg  


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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    I was only able to finish the X axis glass scale today because it took so long. Turned out excellent though. In the pics you'll see the center plate I made to be a mount for the glass scale slider and a hard stop for the table. It is 1/2" aluminum and I drilled and counter sunk the allen heads. I also cut clearances on both sides for the table to slide by and the glass scale housing to do the same. I ended up drilling and tapping the x axis table in 4 places to make it a clean setup. I love that Sinpo sent scale covers, that really finished it off nicely. Hopefully I can knock out the other 2 scales and finish the custom wiring this week.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1648-jpg   Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1643-jpg   Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1644-jpg   Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1645-jpg  

    Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1646-jpg   Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1650-jpg  


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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    Well I finished the install of the Sinpo DRO. Still have to route the cables better and cleaner. Turned out very nice. Love the covers they give you with the kit. I had to custom make all the mountings but it was worth it to get it to look nice and neat. I actually finished some wiring today and got the extra pulse generator working great. I'll use it to move the head up and down without turning on my computer and Mach 3, just makes life so much nicer for doing quick jobs. Here's pics of the DRO installed and you'll see my upper control box with the E-stop and 4 switches to control the X, Y, and Z which I feel is invaluable for a home CNC so it can still be used as a manual mill. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have it in it's new home where the RF 31 is. My garage got destroyed building this, I have enough aluminum shavings on the floor to start a foundry. In fact I think someone should design a little map gas torch aluminum chip melter that we can just dump chips in and it makes an ingot. It does not have to be fancy, just small and quick.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1659-jpg   Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1657-jpg   Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1658-jpg   Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1654-jpg  

    Charter I.H. Clone build-img_1649-jpg  


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    Default Re: Charter I.H. Clone build

    Hey Dad. Nice job on the mill.

    Jay



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