Redsail low cost lasers (M500) - Any suggestions?

[eyoung3]

Hi everyone,

I am a new member to cnczone. I signed up because I'll be doing some light laser cutting very soon, and would like a forum to discuss random questions and issues. My first job will be to purchase a laser cutting machine, and after a quick online search, I came across some nice desktop ones (Universal, and Epilog) for approx. 10,000 USD that will serve my needs.

I then managed to find a company called Redsail, based in China, who offers one with similar specs for 2,000 USD, which is a great price, but makes me wonder about its reliability and after-purchase support. I was wondering if anyone had experience with this company. Specifically, has anyone purchased and used their M500 model recently?

I felt this needed a new thread because as I searched through past threads which talked about Redsail, they were about 12-18 months old, and I'm sure some of the problems/issues have now been worked out. Also, the M500 was apparently designed in the UK, so I'm wondering if the support and documentation are a little better than the other models (which did not get favourable testimonials in past threads). If anyone has personal experience recently with Redsail, please kindly share it ... I would really appreciate it!

[zax15uk]

Hi, I don't have any experience with Redsail but if you search for Jinan Lasers you'll find at least 6 other active Chinese manufacturers.

They are all in the same Jinan area and sell the same product with slight modifications from one to the other. I have heard good things from hxlaser (Rabbit products) and wklaser, but ended up purchasing from Jinan Artsign as they were one of the first to get CE and FDA approval (required for import to the USA).

The parts they use are from the same sources, the driver board and software is used to differentiate one from another.

I am very happy with the purchase, and of course the cost savings. The support from the manufacturer is minimal although they did at least try to help with initial setup questions. The manual was in 'Engrish' but understandable and they provided a DVD with videos for setup, job creation and problem solving.

Having said that, if this machine is your primary business tool then I would recommend Epilog, ULS or Versa.

Zax.

[eyoung3]

Hi Zax,

Thank you very much for your reply ... it was very helpful. I've phoned Artsign and received a very good quote from them, so we might go with Artsign now instead of Redsail, because of your testimonial. Thanks for the recommendation!

Just out of curiosity, how long have you had the laser machine? Other than initial setup, have you had any trouble with any of the components? Was it reasonably packaged, and did it arrive without defect out of the box? What model did you buy? And what is your application? We are research lab hoping to use the laser for cutting patterns out of thin 0.5 mm polystyrene, a thermoplastic. We're looking at the JSM 3060U for small parts. Any tips or comments?

Thanks,
eyoung

[zax15uk]

I purchased the JSM40 about 6 months ago, it is a smaller tabletop unit.

I have used it to cut acrylic, styrene, wood and many other materials and for engraving on just about everything and anything. Surprisingly glass, tile, granite and stone have provided some of the best results with acrylic and wood also looking great. I also have a CNC router and large format vinyl cutter so this complements these well. I use it in a small business, slightly more than a hobby but not a huge commercial venture either.

The machine arrived VERY well packed, and I was able to begin cutting immediately. I later checked the mirror alignment and it wasn't perfect so being a perfectionist I followed the alignment procedure - the difference was very minor (but I felt better knowing it was spot on).

I've added a coolant temperature alarm and flow meter, which connect back to the laser enable signal. This was a simple modification and ensures there is no chance of the pump failing and causing damage to the tube etc.

The build quality is reasonable and they have incorporated safety features necessary to obtain CE and FDA certification. It seems to be well designed (I'm an electronics engineer and have many years experience working on CNC equipment and laser systems).

I would have preferred the option to use other software, but this machine is locked into NewlyDraw (provided). Their larger machines do not share this limitation. I am actually happy with the software now I am experienced with it, it's very basic but does what is required and it's simplicity is a bonus.

You asked about cutting polystyrene and thermoplastics. Well I have not been very impressed at the lasers ability to handle these plastics, especially thin material like you mentioned. Will it cut them, yes. Will it cut them quickly and easily, yes. So what's the problem? Well in my experience these materials melt even at low power so the edge is not cleanly cut and corners will be rounded. This may not be a problem, that will depend on your application.

If you have used a CO2 laser in the past and had success then you will get the same results with these Chinese machines.

Have you tried using a plotter (knife cutter), cheaper and perhaps a better result? You will need to use a Gerber system with tangential blade.

Let me know if you want to test your material before commiting to a laser.

Zax.

Originally Posted by eyoung3 Hi Zax, Thank you very much for your reply ... it was very helpful. I've phoned Artsign and received a very good quote from them, so we might go with Artsign now instead of Redsail, because of your testimonial. Thanks for the recommendation! Just out of curiosity, how long have you had the laser machine? Other than initial setup, have you had any trouble with any of the components? Was it reasonably packaged, and did it arrive without defect out of the box? What model did you buy? And what is your application? We are research lab hoping to use the laser for cutting patterns out of thin 0.5 mm polystyrene, a thermoplastic. We're looking at the JSM 3060U for small parts. Any tips or comments? Thanks, eyoung

[eyoung3]

Hi Zax,

First of all, thank you very much for the detailed information ... all of it is very helpful for us.

We do not have much experience with CO2 laser cutting, but do have a friend doing similar work, using a much more expensive Universal laser machine, and also running into problems with meltback. It appears that it is an issue with material, and not the laser, so it sounds like it's up to us to tinker with the parameters for our application, and minimize meltback that way. From your post, it really sounds like the design, shipping & handling, and service are well worth it for the cost.

Just out of pure interest (and maybe for future reference, when the time comes), can you tell us a bit more about the coolant temperature alarm and flow meter, i.e. what parts you assembled, to make that work? It sounds like it might be worth it for us to try something like that too.

A knife cutter probably wouldn't work for us since we're dealing with pretty small features, roughly holes that are about 1 mm in diameter. We think a laser cutter would be perfect for this.

Thanks for the offer to test our material. Where exactly are you based? It might only be useful if it's convenient for both of us. I think my boss is actually very willing to take the risk on this one, given the ultra low cost and the positive feedback so far.

Cheers,
eyoung

[zax15uk]

You are correct, I just wanted to make sure you had reasonable expectations for that material / tool.

I added an aquarium temperature meter/alarm and a flow switch.

The temperature meter has a relay output designed to control the heater and along with the flow switch I wired them into the interlock signal via a headphone socket.

The interlock signal is fail safe as it requires a 3v circuit to enable the laser, by putting the temp output and flow switch in the signal it will disable the laser if the water temp exceeds the setpoint or if the flow is insufficient. I just wanted to protect the tube - it's cheap and simple. Total cost probably $50.

I'm in Texas, so the coolant temperature was a concern as it can get HOT in my workshop. No special cooling system, just an aquarium pump and a large tank of DI water. Ice can be added if necessary, or you can buy a radiator and fan system to reduce the temperature too.

Zax.

[smartresins]

That is a good suggestion as it is supposed to be larger in in the $2500 range. I had called a canadian number regarding these and could barley undertsand the gentman as he spoke chinglish. Sorry, but I say that because it was so very difficult for me to understand him. He tried to explain to me that I would have to pay china, then the item would ship to him. If it made it through customs, he would then ship it to me? This sounded rather odd, so I polightly ended the call and figured I would try to find a different supplier for it, however I have not been able to yet? LOL. Jody.

[eyoung3]

If I'm not mistaken, the canadian number you called was for Redsail, the company I talked about in the original post. I know exactly what you're talking about with the "chinglish", though I understood him perfectly fine (I'm chinese canadian, fluent in both english and chinese, and grew up with a healthy dose of chinglish in my family :P). It also sounded a little sketchy for me, which is why I'll likely go with Artsign now, after the recommendation in this thread.

If anyone has additional feedback on Artsign, please post before I send the cheque!

eyoung3

[zax15uk]

I would recommend buying from a US distributor, give MBKP (Artsign) and TLE (Rabbit) a call. I know Frank from TLE is around these forums a lot and is very honest and helpful.

Zax.

http://www.mbkpinternational.com/
http://www.the-lasersedge.com/

[smartresins]

I just read with the Mbkp that they do not support XP Pro!! This is a serious problem for me as that is my operating windows on the PC that I will be using to run this! Is this a problem with others? I assume that would be for the newlydraw program? Wich my undertstanding is alot of these machine it does not matter what programs I run, but they will need to get saved then loaded into the newlydraw anyways? Is this the case. Thanks. Jody

[zax15uk]

Jody, That is indeed what they say and it wasn't an issue for me since I had XP home on a PC already. I also have a laptop with XP Pro and Newlydraw runs just fine on it, however like most new laptops it doesn't have a parallel port so I don't know if it will output to the laser correctly. I did contact them about the fact that XP Pro seemed to work and they told me they'd heard that from someone else too but they don't officially support it.

You might want to confirm with the developer of the software:
http://translate.google.com/translat...w.0123.com.cn/

They offer demos too, but of course you still won't be able to verify it outputs ok - hopefully someone has the ability to check and confirm.

Zax.

[smartresins]

Yes, I was told by the company that now, so that is one option that is not a option for me now! Thanks. I will try to contact newly draw and find out that point! Thanks. Jody