View Poll Results: Want to build a robot?

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  • Are you crazy! That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

    1 0.94%
  • I'd love too but I'm not sure how I could help.

    28 26.42%
  • My computer/wife might get jealous.

    10 9.43%
  • Been there, done that!

    12 11.32%
  • I can't, too busy with other stuff.

    12 11.32%
  • Yeh count me in. I'd love to help out.

    49 46.23%
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Thread: So who is building Robots with cnc gear???

  1. #13
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    Hi,
    For the scorion I was thinking of using the tendon Idea.
    I bought PTFE tubing and use a fishing trace wire down the centre.
    All under 2mm Diameter. and the trace wire is stainless steel with a nylon coating. Smooth as.
    This guy has used the idea here.
    http://www.carlpisaturo.com/index.html

    Then all the servos go inside the body

    Cheers
    Rodney


  2. #14
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    not wanting to rain on your parade but

    theres a number of problems and some rather large that will tend to differ from the animatronics methods and actual robotics
    firstly animatronics designs tend to only light weight designs
    and second the looks are more important than power

    for the legs of an insect style robot , using mine as an example
    the leverage on the leg to lift it is transfered at only 50mm offset from the pivot joint , and the lenth of the leg is 900mm , with a weight of each leg at about 3Kg thats a lot of force needed , the motor is a 1A 36v motor it has some gearing before driving a threaded bar , and each jack can provide enough force to lift about 100Kg (220lb) at its output it also and more importantly for this sort of design has a very strong holding torque of 4500N so when the motor is off
    there is no possible movement or slipage of the position held (it would shear the 6mm steel pivot rods first) although 4 * 12V 20Ah (8Kg) batteries are only going to give me a 45 min run time

    i am expecting some more of the jacks for my robot turning up eather today or tomorrow at the moment i only have 3 and expecting another 4 leaving another 11 to get , so i should be able to get them fitted on 2 of the legs and get a pic or two posted , but they tend to hide well ,, the design i am using would only need minor mounting point changes if i was using hydrolics

    radio control servos are not realy going to handle the torque for the legs and have little holding torque also , the wire method may need to be stronger than you think when you had the weight of the robot and all its on board equipment to it also , there ideal for tiny insect style robots , but they don't have the power for long legs

    if using stepper motors driving a gearbox for the pullies / spools for the wire then maybe , but
    that makes it bigger , heavier and needing more power so bigger batteries and in turn needs bigger stepper's to give you the torque until you reach a working balance again , and no matter how i have looked at the problem
    electric drive motors don't provide the power , if geared down to provide the power then fail to provide the speed , and wormdrives are the best option as they don't slip

    if you look closely at the second design the legs seem to use a phenumatic/hydrolic type ram in them , although it would need to be a bit more substantial than the ones it shows there is scope for that
    the actual size of the ram is not the point its the presure it can withstand and the force it gives that is more relivant , a smaler cc ram needs less time to fill so should move a lot quicker , even if using another servo driven ram inside the body to power it from the energy transfer is good and rather easy to do ,

    another problem is 18 servos (the high torque ones ) like the futaba s9402 retail at £60 thats GBP each so £1080 for the servos alone
    only provide 8Kg/cm so would limit the construction weight to rather thin aluminium or plastics for the most part

    and finaly with all 18 servos positioned inside the body (40mm*20mm*37mm each) and needing suitable mountings , associated pullys / spools and routing space for the tendons its going to need a lot bigger body area than you think ,

    based on 18 servos thats 3 per leg , one for hip forward/backwards one for leg lift and one for a knee joint , the 2nd design you gave the link for actualy has another 2 joints on the leg , that would require 30 servos
    and could bump the cost up to £1800 (GBP) just for servos if that method was used

    although i do admit those designs on that link are cool , he does not have the problem of it being able to cary the weight of the servos/drive motors as well as the power supply for them

    as to cost though

    a ram would just invlove the materials and machine time , and less than £5(GPB) in materials , a servo although pre assembled will cost more for ones with any real power
    a simple cheep servo costs about £5 (GBP) that would have no problem driving a home machined hydrolic valve and a suitable hydrolic pump driven by eather a low cc petrol engine should do the job , its not like it would need to be a excivator grade hydrolics system

    on a side note and i seem to have discused this elsware recently
    quite a large percentage of the scifi robot designs around are impractical or impossible to manufacture a working design , a large percentage would not walk as there COG is in the wrong place , and most fail on basic factors like
    theres no room to put suitable batteries or power source , its ideal for scifi
    and using CGI for films lets them get away with not having the phisical limitations but it is no good if you want to build one

    the best example is the normal "mech" design as you can see from

    they had to cheat and put wheels under the feet as theres no practical way to get the balance for it to lift a leg from the ground
    and as you can see from this intro

    the CGI ones don't tend to comply with the laws of phisics about balance

    have to add that the real full size one would make a bit of a mess if it fell over , not to mention that it would not be able to get back up under its own power


    so if you go for a 800mm wide aluminium scorpion then your going to be looking at about 4 to 10kg total weight , including batteries and servos , and metalwork for a 20 to 30 min run time like as a design like say
    http://www.lynxmotion.com/images/video/closeup1.mpg
    that is light weight and lacks anything but the basic walking frame and it has short legs at that. but if loaded with other parts the servos would stall and it would fail to be able to walk with the extra weight
    estimate you may get the tail and 2 grippers using the same construction techneque's they used for the rest , but very little extra


  3. #15
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    Hi,
    Yes yes. There are a few issues to smooth over. Air muscles are one way to go. The one I built and tested for my robot worked great.
    I lifted a 17Kg tool box the full 1" travel with 60PSI pressure.
    They work like a real muscle and have some forgiving play in them.
    Fit a high pressure tank up the clacker of the robot and you can run it around for a while.
    Worth a look into.

    Cheers
    Rodney


  4. #16
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    hi guys.. i saw u guys all wanted to make robots
    and i'm seriously up and interested to make/help out...
    personally im trying to fabricate parts for an r2d2 robot that can clean my room, turn on lights via ir or wireless, and open my room door at least lolz..
    been called everything from slacker to dreamer to idiot so yea.. lolz..
    still on the plan although its in hang on mode cos the robot body itself is hard to get..


  • #17
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    Hi,
    Sounds like you just need a large vacuum cleaner and paint it like R2D2. lol.
    I'm in Greece at the moment and it's really beautiful here but not much in the way of Engineering!
    Only a week and a half to get back home to buy a new mill. Also finish the other cnc mill. Then lots of robots.
    Rod


  • #18
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    Well, I'm unsure if my robot coincides with what you are trying to do, but here is a link
    http://jaydmdigital.blogspot.com/

    It's a differential drive bot with bluetooth telemetry. It was designed with autonomous operation in mind and to inspire the local University IEEE students. It had to compete with my CNC hobby and now both are on the back burner. I mainly focused on the PID motor control code and positioning. The code I have now allows the bot to drive geometric paths based on the number and length of "sides". For example, enter in 3 and 10 and it follows a triangular path driving 10 inches turning 120 degrees, etc... It returns to the starting spot within 1/2" usually depending on the driving surface and wheel slippage.

    I was hoping to use CNC to help make a more complex base ... The way I figure it, the only way I be able to move forward with anything is to move the X2 inside so I can work on it in comfort

    FWIW,
    Jay


  • #19
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by medicontherun View Post
    still on the plan although its in hang on mode cos the robot body itself is hard to get..
    Well, start with a known working platform then
    http://www.irobot.com/sp.cfm?pageid=289

    I own 3 Roomba robots (2 schedulers and 1 Scooba) ... yes they do work.

    Jay


  • #20
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    About 2 years ago i was part of a projectgroup who tried to build a walking robot. Unfortunatly i never saw it walking as when we graduated it was only mechanical finished and not yet electrical.

    Theres a dutch website from my college where a few walking robots have been build. Unfortunatly the website is in dutch only.

    http://avansrobots.nl

    I worked on the robot called Projectsix: http://projectsix.avansrobots.nl/frames/index.php

    Its a big 6 legged walkingrobot powered by 12x 18V cordless drill motors running on 24V. I designed the walking mechanism, but mainly coppied it from the BattleBot: Mechadon. With a few changes to mechadon's design it was able to walk forward/backwards aswell sideways. We have build the actuators ourselves on the CNC-mill at college.

    Each actuator got a linear potentiometer for the position feedback and endswitches for safety. The effective stroke was 45-50mm / 2".

    Small demo of 1 leg with a foam foot, that later has been casted in aluminium. It was running on 12V, so only on half speed as its intended to run on 24V. http://projectsix.avansrobots.nl/docs/pootbeweging.zip

    Some pictures of the robot:

    http://www.bugs.nl/media/album/view....EwMDQ4LkpQRw==

    http://www.bugs.nl/media/album/view....EwMDE2LkpQRw==

    http://www.bugs.nl/media/album/view....EwMDYyLkpQRw==

    Im part of the dutch robotwars community and here are some more pics of the event where i brought the walking robot: http://www.bugs.nl/media/album/index...5pZ2h0Zmx5Lw==

    The robot is about 80cm / 32" wide and weighs about 60-70kg / 130-150 Lbs. The linear actuators are CNC made, the feet are casted aluminium and the main body is manual machined out of 10mm / 0.4" 7022 aluminium. It would carry 4x 12V 9Ah batteries or run on an external power supply. The motor drivers are designed by my robotwars teammate who studies electronics at uni.

    During 5 months ive put my heart and soul in it to get it finished, as it felt as my lifes work. Near the end i worked through the nights aswell. We definatly underrestimated the amount of work that goes into it. And after 2 years i still regret it, that ive never seen it walking. The robot is owned by the college and a 2nd group, finished the electronics. But now my mechatronics teacher went to a different college and i have no idea where the robot is left behind. It still hurts inside, but im thankfull i had the oppertunity to build it with some friends.

    Im not to often on this forum, but if there any questions id like to answer them. Or drop me an email.

    Picture of my robotwars robot: Tough As Nails (TAN) http://www.bugs.nl/media/album/view....EwMDc3LkpQRw==


  • #21
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    wow , quite a nice robot ,

    i "cheated" a bit , i am using some of the old type potentiometers to measure the position , the type with a 6mm steel shaft and a brass bush
    as was used in the old valve/"tube" type generation of radios
    but using them for the main pivot bearings so the feedback level is relative to the absolute angle of each joint , and saves the use of a seprate bearing on each joint also

    i am using satelite jack linear actuators as there avalable for about £30 (GBP) each , although 10" long its quite a saving over the £120 for small
    almost custom 6" linear actuators

    although i opted to try to get the leg leanth more ant like in its proportions
    it means the use of 18 actuators (3 per leg ) rather than 2 per leg like that
    design

    the main problem in using linear actuators is speed , they tend to have more than enough power so are good from that point but with tinybug im only going to be looking at about .5mph but needing a 3m dia area to stand in
    and weighing around 100kg it is rather big

    im working on the wireing harness at present , will try to get some more pics on my site soon of how its going
    the satelite jacks run on 36v so 3 X 12v batteries will give that
    and another for the controls and electronics
    i recently fitted the battery trays and theres room for 8 batteries
    at 12Ah each should give me 36v and a 12v supplyes at 24Ah each

    cost well £2500 GBP is the estimate but its spread over 4 to 5 years
    so not a big strain on my personal bugjet

    i am also developing the control system from scratch


    its a shame that you will not get to see your design fully going , one of the problems about collage projects that you only get a chance to take part for a short time

    as to robot wars , well i tend to concider them as r/c toys there not realy anything more

    in japan they have compretitions based on autonomus robots generaly humanoid style , these are not controlled by remote , there is little of this sort of thing goes on around europe or the usa

    people keep asking if im going to enter my robot into robot wars that makes me resent the program more each time , i dont know if any of you remeber but there was the micromouse compertition held back in the 80's in europe
    that was for a maze solving robot but after about 2 years that compertition
    sort of died a death

    the problem with having compertitions is time , tinybug is going to take me another 2 to 3 years to get fully operational so it would make having a compertition very infrequent ,

    a 6 legged design is going to be realy good at rough terain , beeting wheeled or tracked designs , so a rock crawling type event would be good i guess , although i know theres no such organised event for robots for this

    if we are going to have a group project i have the following sujestions
    that we keep the actual looks of the design open

    this will allow for the artistic design of the robot to be upto the builder to do
    while working together on the systems like critical dimensions , hydrolic systems is used and electrical systems ,

    it also means that we don't end up with a "mass produced " type standard design and each end up with identical robots

    using linear jacks is good as it should be basicaly only small changes to get the same system to operate from hydrolics as far as dimensions go , ok so different control systems and the addition of hydrolic pumps , maybe even phenumatic's could be used as and alternative also

    i have designed my control system to be modular so its going to be a bit like lego to use , although the software is not as modular atm
    but i do think that we could look at the design of hydrolic rams and valves
    for use on it and a common drive train that just needs the frame design to the builders choice for looks and artistic impressions
    allowing for the use of eather a electric linear motor , phnuematic or hydrolics to be used for the actual drives


  • #22
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    Once a year thers a big RoboGames competition in San Fransico. Today is the last day of the event. 15th-17th June.

    heres a link i found:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/new...tm?bw=nb&mp=wm

    Some of the Britisch and 1 Dutch robot went there to compete.

    http://robogames.net/news.php Im not sure if this is the most up to date website.


  • #23
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    the robo games look ok , but other than the combat catogory it only seems suitable for small robots , i guess if theres enough interest they may add a catogory for bigger robots in the walking / obstical avoidance catogory

    although most of the press i have seen just show the robot football and a bit of the others but all focusing on the humaniod style robots only
    although i do see theres some other catogories for diferent styles

    a 6 legged design although looks good is not realy suitable for the combat catogory , it more fits the spesification for a lunar / mars rover that is suitable for harsh terain and fine "sand" that tends to clog tracks or wheels

    interestingly before the recent change to the esa's mars rover tinybug did fit both the size and weight restrictions for that , not by design i have to add
    they recently increased there lift payload so will be a 250kg rover rather than the 125kg , although for me i have decided to set my time line so that i should get tinybug compleated before the esa mars rover launch that gives me 4 years to finish it


  • #24
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    Hi Guys,
    Very nice work Jeroenvanderloo, Thats the type of thing I'm thinking of.
    But I agree with achiestdragon on the robot wars comment.
    "as to robot wars , well i tend to concider them as r/c toys there not realy anything more "

    Now a 6 legged robot for robot wars would be ok. There would be a micro in there somewhere for the walking gant. Now that's more of a robot!
    Robot wars with Scorpion and crab type robots. Wouldn't that be a lot more fun?

    Now back to the project. I agree with achiestdragon that it should be an open style design. Not a cookie cutter robot design.
    But we do need to agree on the leg mechanisms and build those type as a standard style part. That is if we all are looking at a 6 or 8 legged design?

    Is that what we are looking at?

    Personally I'm looking at a 8 legged scorpion style using Pneumatics maybe.
    What does eveybody think?
    Post your sugestions and we will start working out a system.

    Cheers
    Bones


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