40 x 60 Raptor X Axis Accuracy Issue

[cumberlander]

I have always been very impressed with the accuracy if my Raptor. I have done some very delicate inlays and they have always popped right into the pocket. A while back it started missing steps and then eventually the X axis completely stalled. I had been cutting a lot of MDF and we all know how dusty that can be. WD-40 got things moving again but it hasn't been the same since. It is a lot better but on the small inlays a .005" problem is really visible.

I just can't seem to get the thing working accurately. If do a multi-level pocket, there will some inaccuracy that always shows up in the same place on each level. I've greased the ball screw and oiled the ball nut and have cut the velocity and acceleration in half which has improved things but not enough to do a tight fitting inlay.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do next. While the issue I am having could be caused by a lot of things, I'm pretty sure that the ball nut is still not doing its job properly. But you can't really take these things apart to clean them...don't ask me how I know that!

Thanks

Scott

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[ihavenofish]

I have always been very impressed with the accuracy if my Raptor. I have done some very delicate inlays and they have always popped right into the pocket. A while back it started missing steps and then eventually the X axis completely stalled. I had been cutting a lot of MDF and we all know how dusty that can be. WD-40 got things moving again but it hasn't been the same since. It is a lot better but on the small inlays a .005" problem is really visible.

I just can't seem to get the thing working accurately. If do a multi-level pocket, there will some inaccuracy that always shows up in the same place on each level. I've greased the ball screw and oiled the ball nut and have cut the velocity and acceleration in half which has improved things but not enough to do a tight fitting inlay.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do next. While the issue I am having could be caused by a lot of things, I'm pretty sure that the ball nut is still not doing its job properly. But you can't really take these things apart to clean them...don't ask me how I know that!

Thanks

Scott

pop the X linear blocks off and clean them out then reinstall. be very gentle so no ball are knocks from the retainer (you can pop em back in if they do fall out).

mdf is evil on a machine, needs to really be cleaned properly.

first though, check is if theres not a program issue. try moving the program to a different spot on the table. this will tell you if the accuracy issue is in that one spot of the machine (losing steps from jamming) or if its stalling at a specific spot in the program.

[gio666]

With motor power on, push by hand the gantry back and forth to see if something is loose. Try moving work to another spot . If ballnut problem it wouldn't mess up in same place all the time. Oil on ballscrew or ballnut will kill it fast. Check motor side coupling and make sure not slipping

[ihavenofish]

With motor power on, push by hand the gantry back and forth to see if something is loose. Try moving work to another spot . If ballnut problem it wouldn't mess up in same place all the time. Oil on ballscrew or ballnut will kill it fast. Check motor side coupling and make sure not slipping

its not likely anything loose. if it was (backlash) youd have a pattern of innacuracy everywhere it changed direction. it something was physically loose, it would still have a bit of a pattern all over, but less consistent.

for it to only be seen in one spot its got to be stalling. its probably binding in a spot because of dirt - probably in the blocks not the nut. (thats assuming its not software related).

[cumberlander]

I have tried a number of different projects on different parts of the table and there is always something a bit off. What happens depends a lot on what I am cutting.

I took the machine apart this weekend and the issue is definitely with the linear bearings. Once I had liberated them from the gantry uprights, it was obvious that they were difficult to move. I haven't taken them off to clean them yet but I am happy to have found the problem. Thanks, ihavenofish, for pointing me in that direction.

Does anyone know where to get the proper end for a grease gun to mate with the grease zerks on the the bearings? They appear to be 5mm. I have been using a needle type fitting because I haven't been able to find a proper end locally but I think that I am not getting enough grease into the bearing.

[gio666]

Do you have rail caps flush with top of the rails. I know Hiwin don't fit wiper really tight. Mostly only way MDL gets into blocks is if over greasing or light liquid grease or caps are not flush with top of rail. If it is MDF mostly you will have to take of blocks and soak them in WD-40. MDF from grease turns hard as a rock and have to scrap off inside. Only thing that sucks is the Hiwin don't have bearing retainer like TBI or SBC. So you have to take off end wiper and cap, clean and put in with plastic sleeve. Number one killer of bearings or ballscrews is over greasing them. i did have one set of ABBA that could not remove MDF from inside and bearing was no more good from cutting without rail caps on

[gio666]

Also you should feel gantry jump on the rails , also a little ticking sound always in same place

[victorofga]

you can try to wash trough on oilers.. some kerosene or similar.. some pressure air will move dirt out..
it sounds very much as little dirt hiding

after it goind well you can lube it again..

[victorofga]

Does anyone know where to get the proper end for a grease gun to mate with the grease zerks on the the bearings? They appear to be 5mm. I have been using a needle type fitting because I haven't been able to find a proper end locally but I think that I am not getting enough grease into the bearing.

you call manufacturer and just tell him as much he asking for this machine, he should give you a greaser of gold :-)

[gio666]

I would not use air to blow out bearing. It might push out gasket and wiper. Air will only go into grease cap and there be no pressure where you need at bearing. If MDF is hardened it would no blow out because small area between bearings and bearing to rail. Better to take off and do properly and check rail caps are all flush

[gio666]

you call manufacturer and just tell him as much he asking for this machine, he should give you a greaser of gold :-)

What is asking price? i believe you could not even buy the parts for price paid for that machine. I see plastic machines and skate bearing with R/P go for a lot more than this machine

[ihavenofish]

What is asking price? i believe you could not even buy the parts for price paid for that machine. I see plastic machines and skate bearing with R/P go for a lot more than this machine

i think he meant for the price of the machine, it should come with a grease fitting since they are cheap.

[gio666]

i think he meant for the price of the machine, it should come with a grease fitting since they are cheap.

The bearings have M5 fittings. He looking for grease gum fitting to fit grease fitting. But from ones i seen , most grease guns come with couple size fitting

[victorofga]

i seeing these machines on ebay.. compared with another german stuff the isel... these machines are way behind those..

isel makes everything , rails and ballscrews covered and a special rubberlips virtually close out all dust.. heiz makes everything open.. he should give with machine at least a proper grease gun..

also compared with isel, in my opinion isel for close same price a lot better option..

they are in the 40K range and for that money the plastic plugs should be installed in the rails.. at least hiwin has,, on the attacheched picture
you can see the boltheads in the rails.. those ""traps"" collecting all dust and dust works in the carriage badly..

these things i was meaning..

[gio666]

i seeing these machines on ebay.. compared with another german stuff the isel... these machines are way behind those..

isel makes everything , rails and ballscrews covered and a special rubberlips virtually close out all dust.. heiz makes everything open.. he should give with machine at least a proper grease gun..

also compared with isel, in my opinion isel for close same price a lot better option..

they are in the 40K range and for that money the plastic plugs should be installed in the rails.. at least hiwin has,, on the attacheched picture
you can see the boltheads in the rails.. those ""traps"" collecting all dust and dust works in the carriage badly..

these things i was meaning..

The RaptorX from XZero is not sold on Ebay.

Isel Y plate extursion is made by bosch , also uses round 12mm rails across the Y axis not profile rails on one in picture. I also have the extrusion that covers rails and ballscrews. .

Isel is $60k VS XZero RAPTOR $2500

[gio666]

i seeing these machines on ebay.. compared with another german stuff the isel... these machines are way behind those...

Also from looking at machine is picture, i would have to disagree with you on the Isel is structural better than the RaptorX- in picture you posted (not XZero Raptor).

[inventor83]

I primarily cut MDF on a daily basis. Machine runs about 1 hour everyday at least. I have one of the original supported rail machines. Not a single problem with the bearings! If bearings are properly sealed(with wipers/grease) they should last a very long time. I have never oiled my rails or ballscrews. IMO that is just asking for trouble. The oil will attract the dust and make it stick to the rails/ballscrews. Let the grease that is inside the bearings/ballscews do the work. Permitted that they were properly greased and cleaned upon installation. A good dust collection boot is an absolute MUST when cutting MDF. Mine captures about 99% of airborne while leaving behind just a bit on the work piece.

If your bearings are contaminated the only 'real' way to fix it is a new bearing.

Then again, i have refurbed bearings before by soaking them and their respective rails in an industrial degreaser. Slide the bearings back and fourth without the seals on to work out the junk. Then clean off all degreaser with ISO alcohol. Install and grease/check seals.

[gio666]

He has profile blocks, they can be taken apart and cleaned.

[ihavenofish]

victorofga is thinking of heiz raptor. steel 4x8 machine in picture. derailing this thread with nonsense.

[victorofga]

yes possible we talk about different, so i dont want to go on this way..

i found 25K euro price he says 25K dollar.. not same.. also isel has the closed profile with round rails, but isel also has the square rail i call simply """hiwin rail"" tough not only hiwin produce it..

what heiz makes that looking some pretty crafmanship, as it made but behind the looking in my opinion the design itself has something what i dont like... that is my opinion..

also quit dont like that spindle that looks something converted of an anglegrinder.. im sorry..

when i say oil, i didnt mean flooding oil all over.. i just simply feel in bearings some lube necessary..
if rails are exposed no matter they have rubber wiper rails should kept clean on any way..