XZero users group

[mactec54]

ihavenofish
check if the motors are actually loosing position

You should know better than to say that the motors can lose position, these are servo motors, not steppers, if a servo motor does not reach the commanded position it will shut down, any good servo system will do this

With his spindle coming loose & move around he needs to get all the mechanical parts right before he starts cutting, He should replace the spacer plate he has behind the spindle & this may fix that problem, what he has is not suitable

[azam1959]

Ihavenofish,

Thanks

Do agree with you. This is continuous and steady learning process and hope it will keep me engaged and challenged (only reason I am in this hobby). I got very good suggestions from you and other gentlemen on this thread and I think I have pretty good idea on how to take my cut quality to next step. Quality itself is non ending process and I am sure I will be back with more questions and new issues :-)

Thinking about using 6 inch vise for next few cuts to remove one variable but am worried if vise is too heavy for the table top. You are very familiar with this machine, what do you think? Will 50-60 lb of almost point load bend the aluminium table top?

Feeling down time in very close. Hopefully be back in few day :-(

Regards,

that clamp is definitely suspect. not enough support for such a big piece of wood id imagine. could explain why a heavy cut will move.

i think you have to go about this methodically, change one thing at a time. lock down the wood so it definitely cant move, then run again. if its still bad, then check if the motors are actually loosing position. marke 0/0 on the table with tape and a marker, and see if after the program is done it goes back to 0.

if no, then its going to be something wrong with the servo setup. it is either losing its place, or dropping steps from mach3.

[mactec54]

mecosv
Now on the top table you could think of two issues: the flatness and rigidity. From what I see in your last photo I do not see the above table bolted to the beams of the router. This single issue could make the overall structure of your router has greater rigidity. This could be consulted XZero.

There are no beams under the table to bolt to, I have already told him the same thing, that he should of added more beams for the table support

[mactec54]

azam1959

You could use the Vice only if you put a large sheet of MDF or something like it on first, to spread the load of the 60lb Vice, The Vice without some extra support, the aluminum top will sage a little,

Or you could also put the Vice out by the edge of the table were the Beam is as well if that would work for what you plan to cut

[ihavenofish]

mecosv
Now on the top table you could think of two issues: the flatness and rigidity. From what I see in your last photo I do not see the above table bolted to the beams of the router. This single issue could make the overall structure of your router has greater rigidity. This could be consulted XZero.

There are no beams under the table to bolt to, I have already told him the same thing, that he should of added more beams for the table support

the table is attached from underneath.

its absolutely possible the table vibrates under heavy cutting, BUT the cutting result hes getting would not be a result of that.

whats hes getting is a complete wandering of the bit. if the spindle was compeltely loose, you might get something like this, but its something that youd notice pretty early and quite visually.

the work piece moving, or the servos mis behaving are the most likely culprits to me.

[azam1959]

Mecosv, Mectec54 and Ihavenofish,

Thank you very much.

As I mention before after my second experiment, servo did come back to original position. I was taking heavy cut which made spindle screws little loose. Let me first fix this issue before jumping to any conclusion or lengthy discussion.

Lucky me ... Second simultaneous issue is that my spoil piece is not completely flat on aluminum table and not getting the support it needs.

I am happy folks like you are here to help me identify the issue. Let me correct them first. Will take some time

[azam1959]

azam1959

You could use the Vice only if you put a large sheet of MDF or something like it on first, to spread the load of the 60lb Vice, The Vice without some extra support, the aluminum top will sage a little,

Or you could also put the Vice out by the edge of the table were the Beam is as well if that would work for what you plan to cut

Thanks Mectec54. In this case I will not take any risk. Will follow my plan to get mdf and get it cut 2x2 pieces for easy handling. I hope mdf will be completely flat on table top and will get needed support. In addition, I will also make one side of work piece completely flat before running it through planner.
Hope soon I will have the tools to make the spoil board and work piece flat on the roter table.
Regards

[mecosv]

Regardless of whether one or the other we have reason or not, the most important thing is that our analysis will help you understand the end user, what is happening in your machine. In this, the valuation of all variables and comments we make is key. This is part of the learning curve of any user of CNC and obviously us.

[gio666]

Wanted to take advantage of experts willingness to help. Went to basement and took couple of pictures and found one more thing to improve on.

First picture shows the clamp and screw I mentioned and while taking the picture I do remember flex comments from experts here and of course second picture shows that my bottom part is not totally parallel to the aluminium top. I will just go and get mdf for sacrifice board.

THANKS for the help.

Attachment 164297

Attachment 164298

Seeing the top in the pictures, chances are you tighten the angle to profiles. Then tightened down the top. which will make sage if not level with profiles. loosen angles and tighten top to angle. Then tighten where it sits and will be straight

[gio666]

Mach3 has a few problems when you don't have setting right or to high on the DMM motor tuning. Took long time to get it to cut right but still odd problem here and there, Also what is cutting speed set in cad/cam program. Some reason you have to put in setting of 700 or 800 IPM in exported gcode and then lower it down with mach3. That was a big problem we where having

[gio666]

Also those clamps are not design to push against each other. Need to mount one solid side for the clamps to push into .

[gio666]

The spindle mount. i dont know if you screwed into the plate or you put the steel nuts in the back of the plate and tighten through from spindle plate to the steel nuts. is it spindle moving or z axis loose.Needs to be locktite

[azam1959]

The spindle mount. i dont know if you screwed into the plate or you put the steel nuts in the back of the plate and tighten through from spindle plate to the steel nuts. is it spindle moving or z axis loose.Needs to be locktite

Spindle is moving. Will use loctite but need to see the screws first, not sure if I need to take them out for greasing. Thanks George.

[azam1959]

Mach3 has a few problems when you don't have setting right or to high on the DMM motor tuning. Took long time to get it to cut right but still odd problem here and there, Also what is cutting speed set in cad/cam program. Some reason you have to put in setting of 700 or 800 IPM in exported gcode and then lower it down with mach3. That was a big problem we where having

I do not see any issue with ipm. Mostly running around 250 ipm. Half inch round over plunger is at 200ipm but doc is .1 inch

[gio666]

Spindle is moving. Will use loctite but need to see the screws first, not sure if I need to take them out for greasing. Thanks George.

Used the steel nuts in back of z axis front plate.

[mecosv]

For the application of locttite to be effective, you must clean the nuts and bolts of fat or oil. An alternative might be to use pin washers together with the nuts .

[azam1959]

Regardless of whether one or the other we have reason or not, the most important thing is that our analysis will help you understand the end user, what is happening in your machine. In this, the valuation of all variables and comments we make is key. This is part of the learning curve of any user of CNC and obviously us.

Appreciate comments Mecosv. I need to learn and am thankful for more experienced folks spending time to teach.

[azam1959]

Seeing the top in the pictures, chances are you tighten the angle to profiles. Then tightened down the top. which will make sage if not level with profiles. loosen angles and tighten top to angle. Then tighten where it sits and will be straight

George,

I did not see any sage when I used 36 inch level to check the machine. Will check again but it is more likely that wooden piece is little curved. I also do not recall any wrestling between channel and top pieces during assembly. Good input, I will check the table top with level again.

Thanks

[gio666]

There is no room on any bolts to put lock washers . You should not need them if tighten properly.
the end frame has holes in to mount another 4080 to give to support in centre.
But most important is to tighten top to angles, then tighten to profiles.
Thats same way mount now on all the machines as it is far better and stronger the bolting on top

[azam1959]

For the application of locttite to be effective, you must clean the nuts and bolts of fat or oil. An alternative might be to use pin washers together with the nuts .

I am using regular motor oil for lubricating bits and nut after each use. Will same oil work before loctite application?
Thanks