1. ## Need just a little more advice.

have a couple of general questions..

What is the difference between paper space and model space?

After some really good help from Gerry I have drew up some pretty neat stuff, one being a bowling pin, lots of curves.

The other problem is with sizing, after I got the bowling pin done I put some dimensions on it and it is 17 feet tall, my grid is 10" between ticks, how to change it?

Thanks

budP

2. CAD rule #1: Always draw everything actual size.

Type settings and enter to get to the grid settings.

Use the scale command to change the size of an object. Type scale, select the object, and enter a scale factor. 2 will double the size, .5 will make it half size.

Do you know how to draw accurate sized lines?

Say you want to draw a line from coordinates 1,1 to 3,4.
First, you click the line button, then type 1,1 and hit enter. Now, you have two ways to get to 3,1. Absolute entry or relative entry.

To use absolute, just type the coordinates and hit enter. 3,4 (enter)

To use relative coordinates, you use @. To get to 3,4 from 1,1, you need to move2 along the X and 3 along the Y. So using relative coordinate entry, you type:
@2,3 (enter)
Here's how it looks in ProgeCAD:

Command : _POLYLINE
Start of polyline: 1,1
Arc/Distance/Halfwidth/Width/<Next point>: @2,3

If you're drawing horizontal or vertical lines, toggle Ortho mode with F8.
In Ortho mode, it's easy to use direct coordinate entry. Say you want to draw a line 5 inches to the right. Click the start point, drag the mouse to the right, type 5 and enter. The line will be 5 inches long. This works at angles too, but it's hard to get an accurate angle that way.

To draw lines at angles, use relative input with < for the angle. A 3" line at 45° would be @3<45.

Model vs Paper.

You do all your drawing in model space, and use Paper Space (Layout1, Layout2....) to set up drawing pages for printing. Even though you draw everything to actual size, Paperspace will let you print multiple views at different scales on the same page.

Stick to model space for now, you still have a ways to go.

3. Gerry
"Stick to model space for now, you still have a way to go"

I must say this is the understatement of the year.

Thank you very much
budP

4. Gerry:

Drawng to full size== this is a problem because when I do that I have to change the grid to 1 and the default is 10 so if I draw it with the default it is 10x the full size, if I change it to 1 it wont show the grid until I zoom in
really tight and that works OK except the x0,y0 axs is so far removed from my drawing space that inputting in relationship to the x0,y0 is about27 feet off the screen..

If I use the default of 10 which draws 10x too large using snapping If I want to draw a line 5" long I have to draw it 50" long then when I use it I have to divide everything by 10.
I am a really good mechanical draftsman and have my machine drawn up, I have some really nice new ways for a build and want to publish and give away the plans but cannot for now do anything without some decent software skills. Proge may be to complex for me to learn. I hand drew my machine in about 10 hours and have spent over a hundred hours just trying to learn just the basic commands with CAD.
Not very productive and it was started out fun but I am over that now,
When it comes down to command line stuff I don't really care for it, it is at the bottom of the screen and I can hardly see it.
One thing that really bugs me is just a wrong click and a whole bunch of my drawing disappears because I don't have a basic understanding of how things work.
I really appreciate the help you have given me but I am now thinking about some other program, CamBam seems to work OK but 10bulls tied it up too close to MS by making it a dotnet program. I have been using Linux for sometime and really don't want to be that tied into MS

Yours truly
bud

5. I've never used the grid. Turn it off, and just draw what you want, typing in the actual coordinates you want. Also, turn on entity snaps with F3. Right click "ESNAP" in the bottom right corner to configure them. I turn on endpoint, midpoint, and perpendicular.

With snaps on, it's easy to start drawing from the end of something already drawn.

6. Gerry
I've never used the grid. Turn it off, and just draw what you want, typing in the actual coordinates you want

Say you want to draw a line 5 inches to the right. Click the start point, drag the mouse to the right, type 5 and enter. The line will be 5 inches long.

I guess that I am not explaining my problem very well as you are not understanding my question

Regarding the grid== The grid is always there it is just the matter of do you see it or do you not, it is the x,y coordnance of the drawing.

Now regarding the second quote above this does not work because the units in the coordnant grid is 10, inches feet miles whatever. if I type in
x1.y6 i get a line 5 units long and because the grid is in increments of 10 I get a line 50 inches long. If I leave the space in MM I get 50MM.
Does this make sense to you what I am saying? The scaleing is way out of bounds for what I am trying to draw.
I have figured out how to change the grid coordance to 1 which will give me when I draw a line 5 units it is 5 inches <fullsize>. Great but now when I do that
x0,y0 is so far off the screen I can no longer use the coordnant system of inputting a line.

I understand the grid system and how it works it is just getting it to where it will work for me. Can you imagine going into a store and buying grid paper
that the grid squares were 10" each? That is exactly what the grid in the program is giving me.

I can see by your last answer you are going to give up on me pretty shortly, getting really disgusted with me like I am not doing what you are telling me.

If you think I am to stupid to follow directions just say "I give up" it will be no problem.

bud

7. Originally Posted by budP
Regarding the grid== The grid is always there it is just the matter of do you see it or do you not, it is the x,y coordnance of the drawing.
No, it's not always there. You can turn it on or off. Imo, you'll be better off with it turned off. F7 will toggle it on and off, or clicking the grid button at the bottom right of the screen will as well.

The problem your having is you have the grid turned on, as well as the grid snaps, which is forcing you to draw in fixed grid increments. Turning them off will free you up to draw what you want.

Your comment about MM is confusing to me, because with CAD you draw in units, which can be either inches or mm's. There is no setting to choose either one??

As for drawing off the screen, you need to learn to zoom in and out, which are used frequently when CAD drawing. Hopefully, you have a mouse with a wheel, as the wheel will zoom in and out. When you draw something and it goes off the screen, the next step should be to zoom extents, which will fit everything you've drawn on the screen. The quick way that I do it, is type Z (enter) and E (enter). IF you turn on the zoom toolbar, it's the last button. Or using the menus, choose View>Zoom>Extents.

Anyway, I've actually got quite a bit of patience. :-) If you'd like me to give you a call, I think I can teach you more in a half hour than a month of typed messages. Just PM me your number.

8. Gerry

I now have figured out why I could not make things work that you were telling me.
When I first start the program I have to go to the wizard and change the drawing into imperial with fractions. Now when I draw a line and input the length of the line it is the right size. Happy Happy Happy.
The offer of the telephone help is a wonderfull offer, one that I would never expect, time is the most important thing in life in that it can never be replaced and for you to offer the most precious thing in life to me is astounding. You are a very generous person.

Right now things are pretty well under control and I may in the near future take you up on your offer but for now let me fiddle with the program a little more. You have given me lots to work on and if I learn all that I will be astounded.

bud

9. Once you get a little more advanced, the best thing to do is set up a template and start all your drawings from the template. I use two, one set up for doing parts to be machined, and one for actually doing drawings. I can make one up for you if you want, but it'll take the phone call to get all the info I'd need.

Just ask when you need more help.