CNC Brain is ready! 6-axis Double Closed Loop Controller

[ger21]

Originally Posted by turmite If the steppers are sized correctly, and using the Brain, they should never stall! That is part of the beauty.

Mike,
if the steppers are sized correctly, then you shouldn't need the Brain.

I think a lot of people will be under the belief that the Brain will fix their underpowered machines with closed loop. It might save your parts, but it's not a fix for being underpowered.

[ger21]

Can the Control Panel be modified with the free version of Vb.net?

[fer_mayrl]

Thanks Bruce,

Well in my case, i use the default screen on mach to control my router. I and only I operate the machine so no need for a custom made screen, i know what buttons work and which dont.

I have another machine which i designed a simple screen for, it is a traveling saw, design to cut off strips of corian, the same cuts on many sheets. (place a sheet, cut a 1" strip, a 7/8" strip, and then cut whatever size to leave the rest of the sheet at 25" wide, mach makes the calculations). it is a simple screen where operator just inputs starting sheet width and just press run, the machine takes care of the rest.

It was a simple screen/wizard that even I could get together in an hour.

I was thinking more for the OEM market. For one, i am in the dilema of building comercial machines (plasma, laser, waterjet, router, we still dont know which to make).

I was kind of leaning to using a custom mach screen for that specific application, either that or using a comercial controller like a burny or something like that. Now that I see your product, it has the best of both worlds. but still laks in the GUI department, as I would not like my machines to have the interfase that comes with the package because many features just dont apply to the process. and i really cant program to save my life so making a new screen is out of the question for now.

Another feature i think you should add, is to be able to sincronize axes, like mach does, letting A axis mimic the X axis for dual side driven machines.

ill let you know if something else comes to mind.

Keep up the good work
Fernando

[turmite]

Originally Posted by ger21 Mike, if the steppers are sized correctly, then you shouldn't need the Brain. I think a lot of people will be under the belief that the Brain will fix their underpowered machines with closed loop. It might save your parts, but it's not a fix for being underpowered.

Ok so I haven't gone to the shop yet! Actually I was waiting for Joakim to email me a corrected 4 axis gcode to test and that has just happened, so I don't have long.

To address your sized correctly no need comment, let me ask a question. When you run open loop steppers and you have a power failure......what do you do? I personally have to re-reference my machine then take a chance that my micro switches triggered at the same spot they did the last time, and on my machine, that is truly a shot in the dark. I have a quasi back up, but at best it is barely useable in a situation like a power failure. With the CNCBrain, and using dual loop feedback, power the machine back up, tick the motion and it knows where you are, and where you were. Go back and finish!

You might be able to do that with open loop steppers, but odds are it will not be correct. I will be the first to admit that this is not a subsitute for bad design, and that there is a possibility that someone might get the urge to undersize, but that would not be the fault of the CNCBrain nor it's features. That would be the result of someone not using the gray matter God gave them!

Hey Gerry let me ask you a question. You run several big full production machines right? Don't they benefit from feedback and error compensation? What I'm asking is, wouldn't you rather have it than not?

Mike

[brccrb]

**Ger and Mike

1) You and Mike are saying the same thing. You and he are both right (don't let it go to your heads ). The CNC Brain can't make a machine more powerful. That is bounded by physics. But, the Brain can take a machine that is questionable and make it reliable (especially in prototyping or unique production). It also lets the "Franken Mills" whose are parts of mixed to push what they have. To the user, it feels like it is fixed because is stopped screwing up the part.

2) Free VB.Net. It should (though I've not tested the free version) and that was the hope.

**Fernando
1) See your point. Mach lets you build a custom screen. What if, in the coming months, created a "Wizard" that would let you "draw" your interface? Not programming, just dragging field where you want them.

2) Dual axis ... We can add that. I'll add it to the enhancements list. It was actually part of the original prototype.

**All

Thank you for such amazing comments and questions. Please, keep them coming.

[Switcher]

Your SDK does work with the Free version of MS VB.NET 2005, the only problem I found is I can't Debug.

Is the program looking for a machine at startup, If so, can I edit to run without a machine?

Sorry to start on you so early with SDK ?'s

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

For everyone that does not work with VB.net, with an SDK this program can be modified to make custom cnc controls, this is HUGE!

Not to mention it's running with VB.net 2005, so as far as I can tell it should work with the Free version of VB.Net 2008.

I havn't tried 2008 (with your SDK), last time I tried the 3.0 framework it was messing with my PC, so I switched back to 2.0.

Also I can't run the program from the Bin file, any ideas?

I really want to see this take off.


.

[brccrb]

Switcher,
Most excellent! Never too early for the fun stuff!

Did you run the normal program install? It registers the Brain SDK ("SR_CNCBrain.DLL" in the windows/system32 directory ).

This is the COM (Active-X) interface. It is a very thin shell, which basically deals with the USB stuff. Now, we're working on V1.0.5 that will "emulate" a CNC Brain. Originally, it was just to demo the layout.

VB.Net can be painful at times First thing, while the project is open and documents closed, "Clean" then "Build".

Each Tab in the program is a "usercontrol". It sometimes has trouble understanding this. So, "Clean/Build" when you open the project, especially before opening the Form1 designer.

The CNC Brain is the "axCNCBrain" object owned by Form1.

The Control Panel was built with Visual Studio 2005 (for exactly the same reason you listed ... .Net 3.0, so it is .Net 2.0). In theory, it should transport.

**Also, feel free to give me a call (that goes anyone that has questions). I'd like to help anyway I can. Number under "contact" on the website. You've made my day!

Also, click the "BrainPanel_Diagram.cd". It is a diagram out how the program was put together. I use it often to remember what is where.

s/Bruce

Originally Posted by Switcher Your SDK does work with the Free version of MS VB.NET 2005, the only problem I found is I can't Debug. Is the program looking for a machine at startup, If so, can I edit to run without a machine? Sorry to start on you so early with SDK ?'s ------------------------------------------------------------------------- For everyone that does not work with VB.net, with an SDK this program can be modified to make custom cnc controls, this is HUGE! Not to mention it's running with VB.net 2005, so as far as I can tell it should work with the Free version of VB.Net 2008. I havn't tried 2008 (with your SDK), last time I tried the 3.0 framework it was messing with my PC, so I switched back to 2.0. Also I can't run the program from the Bin file, any ideas? I really want to see this take off. .

[ger21]

Originally Posted by turmite To address your sized correctly no need comment, let me ask a question. When you run open loop steppers and you have a power failure......what do you do?

Ignoring the fact that I had no power at my house for 4 days last week , losing power happens so rarely here that it's not an issue. But if it were, how is the Brain going to help you? Unless it has a battery backup, I can't see how it can keep track of position without power to it.

Bruce?

Originally Posted by turmite I personally have to re-reference my machine then take a chance that my micro switches triggered at the same spot they did the last time, and on my machine, that is truly a shot in the dark.

There was a board available that would home the machine using encoders, but due to low demand the website (cncbuildingblocks) recently shut down. Sounds like that would have been a big help to you.

Originally Posted by turmite Hey Gerry let me ask you a question. You run several big full production machines right? Don't they benefit from feedback and error compensation? Mike

Sure, but that's apples and oranges. $100K machines don't run open loop stepper systems.

Originally Posted by turmite What I'm asking is, wouldn't you rather have it than not? Mike

It easily doubles the cost of a good stepper system. I'm sure for some it'll easily pay for itself. And for many others it won't be needed at all.

[turmite]

Originally Posted by ger21 Sure, but that's apples and oranges. $100K machines don't run open loop stepper systems.

That's the point! Even $50,000 cnc machines don't run open loop. Now the small shop doesn't have to run open loop either. That is exactly the purpose for this piece of hardware!

Hey we all know that this is not going to be for everyone. Even now some complain that Mach is not free! What it does do though, is give an option not available for less that about $20k new price stuff and that is for a max of a 4 axis unit. Fagor is the least expensive unit I priced years ago and it was $15k for 3 axis way back then.

Mike

[JNFSWE]

Does this mean I can retro fit a servo machine with mach 3 and cnc brain???
If so, ohhh yeahh!

J

[DanC]

I am rebuilding a 5'x10' router table. I have parallel stages on the x axis, a motor on each end of the gantry. I have a limit switch for each motor. I built a circuit to accomodate homing. When the machine homes, the first motor to hit the limit switch holds and waits for the second motor, then both motors back off the switches and are synched.

Would the CNCBrain be able to accomodate this arrangement? If so, I'll buy one.

Cheers,

Dan

[brccrb]

**Dan,
Parallel motor operation was part of the originial prototype. We'll put that option back in in the next release (probably next week ... easy add since it was there originally ... just have to dig up the code).

It will use two of the axis to run the dual axis (Such as X and C ... or such).

Didn't realize so many people ran dual axis.

Thanks for the help!

**JNFSWE,
Mach support would be great! Supposed to talk with Brian from ArtSoft next week.

**Ger
When power is off, it doesn't run (duh ) But with the Position Reference, you can power on a machine, move the axis back and forth a short distance, and be back of position within a click (5 micron in standard scales).

Position Reference lets you use incremental scales as absolute encoders in recovering position. If you run 4+ axis, setup is made simple (an otherwise tough task since every bit of error is multiplied as it rotates).

**All
The original purpose of G-Code was to create repeatable, mass produced parts... so someone could "tweak" the G-Code until it was accurate, then run a hundred thousand parts. If they spent a week "tweaking", it was worth it since they would make it up in the number of parts being produced.

For many of us, we want to use G-Code for prototyping and producing "one off" items. That is a long way from the original intent.

The CNC Brain was created for three purposes:
-------------------------------------------------
1) To give the "little guy" the power to prototype accurately using G-Code. You can fight with the G-Code and Open Loop (how much time and energy are you wasting?) or go Closed Loop ... hmmm.

2) To retrofit older machines, giving them new life and abilities (without having to buy a new system). Let's see, new machine cost vs adding a CNC Brain ... hmmm.

3) For OEMs to sell machines with the features that before would have been many times the cost. If you could buy a machine for almost the same price closed loop as open loop, which one would you buy? ... hmmm.