SMD pick and place

[ciccio]

Is someone interested in building a SMD pick and place ?
I mean a little, not-so-fast, not for very small package pick
and place.
Any idea about hardware and software is really appreciated !

[alexg]

I am interested.. I already started something but the results are really not very good.. I made a "bindomatic"... The space between the bearings blocks is too big and it just binds all the time. I will have quite a hard time to fix it without spending much more money than I already have..

Do you have any clean ideas in mind ? The software part will not be the hardest if your PCB program can export XY coordinates for the parts centering.]

Best regards,
Alexandre

[ViperTX]

Originally Posted by alexg I am interested.. I already started something but the results are really not very good.. I made a "bindomatic"... The space between the bearings blocks is too big and it just binds all the time. I will have quite a hard time to fix it without spending much more money than I already have.. Do you have any clean ideas in mind ? The software part will not be the hardest if your PCB program can export XY coordinates for the parts centering.] Best regards, Alexandre

Cute....a bindomatic... you can probably patten it...but seriously, I suspect that you have an alignment problem, or is your base is not flat & stable to the movement that will torque your rails out-of-alignment.

[ViperTX]

Are you trying to place electronic components onto pads for some vapor soldering? If so then it's more then just simple x-y...there is component size, type, orientation, alignment to the pcb's datum lines, etc.

[alexg]

Originally Posted by ViperTX Cute....a bindomatic... you can probably patten it...but seriously, I suspect that you have an alignment problem, or is your base is not flat & stable to the movement that will torque your rails out-of-alignment.

The "bindomatic" new word is something I read at one of John "cranky" ********** message somehwere.. It really defines my first go on the machine very well...

I used Igus bearings and the guy that made the mechanics for me ignored my warnings that the bearings should be at 1/2 the width of the space perpendicular to them as Igus clearly states for their bearings. It will just keep binding until that rule is covered or I get other kind of bearings.

Best regards,
Alexandre

[alexg]

Originally Posted by ViperTX Are you trying to place electronic components onto pads for some vapor soldering? If so then it's more then just simple x-y...there is component size, type, orientation, alignment to the pcb's datum lines, etc.

They will go into a reflow oven. Component type and orientation is also part of most BOM generated by PCB's programs. And for small productions that could even be entered by hand without much trouble. If someone can make me do a nice machine I can come with the software that will read the info from a text file and move the steppers around to make it all work.. My problems really are with the mechanics and specially the lack of good mechanical tools. I would love to see some simple and fast stuff that could be produced with just hand tools.. Or something that I could just submit to a machine shop and have the parts done easily. This machine is different from a router because it has to be much faster and do not have to cope with cutting forces.


Best regards,
Alexandre

[ciccio]

I think we can cut a big problem in some more smaller problems, and so on till we find a good, working, inexpensive solution. Is this way OK for you ?
The machine is SOFTWARE + HARDWARE.
Software can be a problem for me, but probably not for Alexg, so first problem is solved
Hardware: we can cut in 3 parts: the X Y Z plus Rotation " plotter",
feeders, and the most complicated part, the "head" with all the pick and place goodies.
Alexg: can you tell us more about your experience?
Thanks to all, we are a good team.
Paolo

[alexg]

Originally Posted by ciccio I think we can cut a big problem in some more smaller problems, and so on till we find a good, working, inexpensive solution. Is this way OK for you ? The machine is SOFTWARE + HARDWARE. Software can be a problem for me, but probably not for Alexg, so first problem is solved Hardware: we can cut in 3 parts: the X Y Z plus Rotation " plotter", feeders, and the most complicated part, the "head" with all the pick and place goodies. Alexg: can you tell us more about your experience? Thanks to all, we are a good team. Paolo

Ok.. Let's forget the software by now... It is not trivial but more than easy enough to solve when the machine is operational..

The Z, rotation and vacuum pick and place is also quite easy. What I made was using 2 small steppers with screws attached to them that go on a Igus Drylin N "shuttle". The top one drives the "shuttle" up and down and the bottom one is connected to a small vacuum pickup tool and makes the rotation.

X and Y should be quite fast to be usefull..

In my humble thinking we can survive with about 0.3 mm of combined precision. That should not be a big problem..

Another problem to be dealt with afterwards is how to take the components from their original rools. But that is a hole new story...

Best regards,
Alexandre

[ciccio]

I have just received from Distrelec a " P 830 vacuum pick up ":
it does NOT work, suction cups are not precise, and move easely.
What do you suggest ( and are using ) to pick up the SMD?
What vacuum pump do you use ( refrigerator or bigger pump) ?
The suction cup is my biggest problem, I do not think to have
problem with the " plotter", I will use FLEXLINK or BOSCH RETHROT
alluminium and accessories, plus SYNCHROPOWER belts, as used in
my Bungard PCB driller : simple, noiseless, fast, and , after all, inexpensive.
If needed, I can send you pictures and RS catalogue part numbers.
How are built suction cups in commercial pick & place ?
Any picture of simple " squaring station "?
Paolo

[alexg]

Originally Posted by ciccio I have just received from Distrelec a " P 830 vacuum pick up ": it does NOT work, suction cups are not precise, and move easely. What do you suggest ( and are using ) to pick up the SMD? What vacuum pump do you use ( refrigerator or bigger pump) ? The suction cup is my biggest problem, I do not think to have problem with the " plotter", I will use FLEXLINK or BOSCH RETHROT alluminium and accessories, plus SYNCHROPOWER belts, as used in my Bungard PCB driller : simple, noiseless, fast, and , after all, inexpensive. If needed, I can send you pictures and RS catalogue part numbers. How are built suction cups in commercial pick & place ? Any picture of simple " squaring station "? Paolo

I am planning on just using the table for small components... Not for the big ones that need the suction cups. I use a aquarium pump modified to make vaccum for the manual pick and place I use today and "flat" hypodermic needles for picking up.. It works very nicely for manual application and should be enough for the machine also. The area is very small, the vaccum pump does not need to be powerfull..

I think I can get Bosch stuff down here in Brazil also.. Not cheap but maybe be easier than other options...

Best regards,
Alexandre

[ciccio]

Can you please tell me more? Did you simply "cut" the needle?
I will test as soon as you answer me !
A commercial "suction nozzle" is about 150 USD !!!!!!
Paolo

[ciccio]

Thank you for the GREAT idea, Alexandre !
I could not wait, so I built the gear with a flattened needle and
an aquarium pump ( preiously used for the PCB bubble etcher )
and a piece of tube: it works great!!
I'm here in front of my pc, answering you with one hand, and with the other
shaking with decision the needle with attached a SMD 1206 resistor:
it stays attached to the needle without problems!
Now I'll find a small 200 step stepper, and I'm thinking the best way to
attach the needle to the stepper, then to the Z axis.
Is a good idea to use a solenoid for Z axis as in LPKF pcb drillers ?
Paolo