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man am I gettin screwed I work at a sprocket and sheave plant as a cnc setup/lead man and have been doing it for 10+yrs and have programming experience and I only get $16 an hour. time to start looking
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$10.00/$14.00
$14.00/$16.00
$16.00/$18.00
$18.00/$20.00
$20.00/$24.00
$24.00 and up
Hey everyone, I am new to the forum and wanted to throw my situation out there to see what everyone thought. Id greatly appreciate some advice because I am new to the field... so here we go!
Ok so I am 23 living in Central New York, and I got hired approx 5 months ago to what is a medium sized machine shop. I hesitate to call it small because we machine parts for the aerospace industry, mostly fuel assemblies and such. I am 1 class (process piping and design yipiee... *yawn*) shy of having a 2 year mechanical tech degree. I have expierience welding but almost none before being hired where I am now.
So this is what my job currently entails:
-Programming 9 lathes (Hardinge 51's and 42SP's, a Wasino, and a Mori Seiki).
-Programming 3 mills (all Matsuuras!)
-Programming a Fanuc Robocut Wire <please someone hit me>
-Programming a CNC EDM, and a Holemaster
-Programming a Vision System (used on a lathe to create an automated cell)
-Building an integrated and interactive tool library and job reference system
-Ordering custom tooling
-I am considered the process engineer
-Next week I am going to be taking classes on learning to program the 3 Fanuc Robots we have, one of which is in the fully automated cell, the other two in automatic load/unload cells as I call them.
I do get the pleasure of programming with mastercam on the lathes and mills, but the EDM's and wire are done by hand. We work mostly with Hastelloy and L605. I havent machined many other materials, but everyone else seems to complain about these being difficult, often holding tolerances of .001 to .0005. So I guess here is my question, Im sure to some this is not a lot of work, I have read most of this and other threads and some people are doing crazy amount of work I would never think of doing! So I do all of this for $12.50 an hour, being short once class of my 2 year degree (which i will complete this fall). I dont get paid overtime, but i usually don't leave on time, and no benefits. Am I crazy for doing this? Or is this something that should be expected? I feel like I've proven myself, and from what I see on here the average starting pay is something around $16-$18 an hour for someone starting in programming. Anyways, Can I get anyone's opinion on if I should ask for a raise, and how I should go about doing it? Any opinion would be greatly appreciated. Don't get me wrong I love my job, but I don't like having to clean the change out of my car just to get some toilet paper at the end of the week :-).
man am I gettin screwed I work at a sprocket and sheave plant as a cnc setup/lead man and have been doing it for 10+yrs and have programming experience and I only get $16 an hour. time to start looking
I see the numbers guys are putting up here and I'll say they are not reflective of the industry as a whole, at all. I own a small job and we are very efficient at the jobs we do. There is absolutely no way that we could ever pay a guy on the floor 30+/hr under the current manufacturing climate. I'm not sure where you guys are doing work but most of the work we do, we have to do at 75/hr, or less. Anyone that thinks most shops are getting even as much as 75/hr are very misinformed. It is extremely competitive out there for all but the very complicated stuff, and shops are eating their young.
The blame does indeed fall onto the the government for letting imports come into this country that were made in an environment that cannot be compared to industry here. Labor makes up about 50% of overhead and Chinese laborers (for example) make only 10-15% of what American workers make. Do the math. Factor in Gov't subsidies for materials (there, not here), regulations, insurances, and all other mandatory regulations and fees, and you can see the game is rigged.
The same thing that was done to save Harley Davidson in the late 70's needs to be done with manufacturing. A tariff needs to be added to any goods coming into the country that "balances" economies. I'm not looking for an advantage, just a level field. If the jobs come back, the shops will be able to charge real rates, pay real wages, and competition for skilled workers will spawn new training programs, and new, better paying jobs.
Finally, of course people buy less costly goods. It's all they can afford. Same with shops. If you can only get so much per hour, you can only afford so much overhead. Basic business.
The global economy is indeed a zero sum game. As one country rises, another falls. Our trade policies are throwing us off the cliff.
OK guys, Here's my take on this pole and please lets get some feedback. First, "CNC Operator" To me means "button pusher". You know, change inserts, do offsets, check parts, pack, fill out paperwork, maybe load a bar and so on Right? Here we're looking at the lower side of the scale from $12-$16 tops around here in CT anyway. The Other side of the scale would be crackerjack programmer-setup people who perhaps make their own fixtures and gages, Set-up and maintain their own inspection equipment, and routinely make program and process changes to lower cycle times, increase tool life/chip control, dial in repeatability problems, eliminate operations all together or hell, all of the above. That's the $24+ crowd and woefully underpaid and under appreciated in my opinion especially in light of the growing "skilled labor shortage" these days. I new guys making $27-$29 before 9/11 in aerospace non-union, yes, I saw there paychecks.
I have walked into shops and cut cycle times on 10yr old jobs in half much to the surprise of my bosses. Jobs that will be twice as profitable from now till forever whether it's me running it or the $16/hr guy. If it wasn't for the high cost of benefits I'd be pretty pissed that I'm 'Only' making $24.70/hr after 27yrs and 11 shops. I've averaged .9 percent/yr since getting 'displaced' from the aerospace shop I worked at till 2002. Been through 4 shops since looking for money. And I have to disagree, with the previous post. A $60/hr shop rate is not sky high. Like they say sometimes you eat the bear and some times the bear eats you. Take the bugger job and break even at $45/hr to keep the $100/hr job from the same customer.
Yea Ok, we get the picture, gimme a Moore Jig grinder and a Temp controlled shop and I'll hold 2 tenths all day long to! I can hold 2 tenths on a CNC Lathe all day if you want. There's good machinists and then there's 'shoemakers'Originally Posted by donkk
At 23 you are dealing with a bunch of variables, Documentation of your work experience, the impact other 23 year old's have on the working world. How much what you know is directly attributable to your present employer, where on planet earth you reside . . . but yeah, I think you should be getting more pay. So go ask the boss (nicely), if he can see any improvement in that area.
Do not remind him why toolboxes have wheels. Jobs are tough to get right now and HE Knows it. It costs a lot of money to replace you and HE Knows that too. You might consider part of your underpayment, the cost of gaining the training you are receiving. When the economy turns around, you should be in a good position to improve your situation. A stable (if underpaid) work history is a good thing to have. Always try to make money for your boss, and do not fear the opportunity to remind him of how or when you have done so, he might be unaware (is he a fathead) of the fact. You can usually tell anyone, just about anything, if you pick the correct time and words. He MIGHT have some areas he wants improvement in, give him the opportunity to express those, you might learn something there too. You are in what should be the most productive time of your life, in terms of your personal strength and stamina, and your head is rapidly catching up, so I would say yes, it is time to ramp up your pay.
We're not in business to make parts, we're in business to make money, making parts is just how we do that.
The biggest problem with the up and coming youth is the sense of entitlement!
I agree that you need to make a decent wage to have a good life.
BUT, you have to "pay you dues"! Kids today expect 6 digit salaries right out of high school. They come to you with the skills of a bent fork and a chip the size of Texas on their shoulder. If they mess up numerous times and you yell at them, the cry and say you can't treat them like that.
Anybody have any apprentices working for them right now will attest to this, I'll bet!
10 bucks is minimum wage here in Toronto. A machine operator, just starting out, has to watch a machine work and change the part when necessary. Not a skilled trade!
A designer/programmer/diagnostic specialist/machine mechanic has put in some significant time and is working up the ladder = more money.
CNC newbie. Just getting started!
China might only be making $4.00 hr, but American money is worth 7 times more, so if they are getting $4.00 hr it is $28.00 hr in American money.
Just in case anyone cares.
Hi new to the forum, I've been a machinist for 17 years. I make my own programs and set up my own machines and run them. I make $22. hr.
Good bad i don't know.
China may make 4.00/hr (which is more than I have heard from fairly reliable sources), but that is adjusted to American dollars. Their working conditions would not be acceptable in this country, they have no OSHA, no workman's comp, no EPA restrictions, and no SS. The money they earn has more buying power in their country than it does here, but it is in no way equivalent to 28/hr.
As far as you making 22/hr, it all depends on your level of expertise, not just your years of experience.
Move to western Canada, a good CNC setup operator makes anywhere from $25.00 - $30.00 per hour. Just remember to be careful because there are smaller shops paying $30.oo++ because their very survival depends on it, but when things slow down their abiltity to keep you on board diminishes very rapidly. Go to a larger more established plant with their own product line and you'll be alright.
PM me and I'll give you some idea's.
They do get paid something. It's just not quite keeping up with inflation and other cost of living items that didn't even exist 25-30yrs ago. Like new and ever increasing taxes. When 'middle class' is defined by a double 60-80K/yr household salary, even the best high tech machinists can't make a 'middle class' living anymore.You would think skilled people would actually get paid something.
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