What is the average hourly pay for cnc operators in your state

[millbastard]

unfortunatly in my area 'years' on a machine are mush more important than knowledge of the machine/tooling/material/prints/programming, once again i am by no means trying to state that i am a master CNC machinist, but unfortunatly i stepped up to the plate, i took on the challenge and i learned, in my employers eyes, im just a young punk kid that doesnt have the 'experience' as the machinist making twice my wage, therefore until i get the years under my belt that he has, i will not in there eyes, be worth sh!t

[Geof]

....in my employers eyes, im just a young punk kid that doesnt have the 'experience' as the machinist making twice my wage, therefore until i get the years under my belt that he has, i will not in there eyes, be worth sh!t

At age 18 or 19 as an apprentice I was put on setting up machines for operators making three times my wages. After a few weeks I said no until they paid me at least what they were getting so they put me on Journeyman Machinist rate until the end of my apprenticeship. After that they boosted my pay to keep me until I was being paid more than the shop foreman. If you think you are worth more stick your neck out and ask for it. If they tell you to go take a hike do just that and keep doing it until you find some place willing to pay you what you think you are worth. If you never do find a place that will maybe you are not really worth it after all.

[dertsap]

i worked with a nightmare of a guy who didnt have a clue of anything he was doing , he challenged the test and got his ticket , the following day he came into work demanding journeymans rate , the boss looked at him and asked how did you crash the machine the other day ,oh ! by the way your fired
lots of guys dont really feel they need to earn their wages ,

we have the union knocking on our door , they are telling these guys that the operators deserve as much and will be payed the same as the rest of us , now a guy who stands in one spot pressing the buttons does not deal with the stress involved with being full on at a job , the production side of the company does the same thing every day while the other side deals with 1-12 off intense jobs that are high tolerance expensive and at times outright ignorant to work with , much of the time i can glance at someone and see the pressure in their bulging eyes ,
where is the incentive for a guy to do this to himself on a daily basis if another guy can stand staring into a machine waiting for the next part to come off and is not capable of doing the crazy stuff

[makingchips]

Not to pick on you personally because everybody is guilty of it, me included, going for the "economy ones".

The Manufacturing jobs have not gone overseas they have been "chased" overseas by us all going for the cheapest price regardless of quality.

That's why everything I buy for the shop says MADE IN AMERICA. Its not a price issue if you think of it as keeping each other in business. for example buy atrax end mills,hangsterfers coolant ,Kurt vises. MSC lists where a product is made literally do yourself a favor pay the extra 5.00.

But on another note buying stuff for home or auto is not so easy and you must buy what you must buy.

Makingchips

[Cartesian-xyz]

Please dont misunderstand me. As a Production Manager I do not set the wages for the company , that is the Company President and General Managers responsibility. Additionally I stated "good" CNC machinist...Not "Exceptional"..or "Brillant"...or "Top Notch". And as a 30 yrs veteran in the trade I have worked with all the above. And in my opion no one above average should be worth less than 20.00/Hr.
However in looking at the Poll percentages it is interesting to note how close
all the wage windows exist. And that the lowest margin is in the UPPER wage bracket. I since this is primaraly a result of geographic location as opposed to any experience level valued result. Supply and demand can drive the winds of wages as well as the value of our properties. Unfortunately this can give some a false since of value realitive to there true value in the trade.(Either + or -)

As stated by tobyaxis in an earlier post

BTW: Most of the people I meet in Shops call themselves First Class Machinists, but they are nothing more than Overpaid Glorified Machine Operators, nothing more.

Here is a Test.

1) Go to a Mill guy and ask him to make an Arbor for an Indexing Head.

2) Go to a Lathe guy and ask him to make a Fixture for holding an irregular shaped part that need to be Turned.

3) Ask both to Sharpen a Drill buy hand.

4) Ask both to make a Gear on a Bridgeport.

5) Ask both to the other's Job for one day.

Try these and see what results you get. Chances are you will get a puzzled look or a "That's Not My Job" answer.

The answer you should get is NONE, they just go and do what was asked.

That is a Machinist!!!!!!

YAAAAAA......Well put tobyaxis
This is the Machinist I feel is VERY difficult to find at any wage!

But as I stated in my post earlier, I have a hard time even finding "good machinst".


CNC machinist with good milling and turning capabilities, tooling and planning abilities coupled with inspection plate skills will bring 16.00-20.00+/Hr. But WHERE ARE THEY.

[Geof]

......CNC machinist with good milling and turning capabilities, tooling and planning abilities coupled with inspection plate skills will bring 16.00-20.00+/Hr. But WHERE ARE THEY.

Honestly, this is abyssmal. I start people doing nothing but deburring and cutting stock on a bandsaw at 17.00; you are about half what you should be for someone with the skills you want.

[Cartesian-xyz]

Honestly, this is abyssmal. I start people doing nothing but deburring and cutting stock on a bandsaw at 17.00; you are about half what you should be for someone with the skills you want.

Wow....Ouchhhh...
Look at the Poll....71 out of 103 aproximately 70% are being paid less than
you pay for supposable the same service!!!

Whos the Em basal!!!!

Again...I dont set the wage.
However in my enviorment...The company could not afford to pay someone 17.00/Hr to saw and deburr parts. We compete on a world Market!

Stephen, (enjoying all the feed back )

[tobyaxis]

Wow....Ouchhhh...
Look at the Poll....71 out of 103 aproximately 70% are being paid less than
you pay for supposable the same service!!!

Whos the Em basal!!!!

Again...I dont set the wage.
However in my enviorment...The company could not afford to pay someone 17.00/Hr to saw and deburr parts. We compete on a world Market!

Stephen, (enjoying all the feed back )

What kind of shop are you running, a "Sweat Shop"? Good luck in finding a Qualified Machinist at that rate of pay.

[tobyaxis]

Honestly, this is abyssmal. I start people doing nothing but deburring and cutting stock on a bandsaw at 17.00; you are about half what you should be for someone with the skills you want.

What is your rate for Qualified Machinists??

[Cartesian-xyz]

What kind of shop are you running, a "Sweat Shop"? Good luck in finding a Qualified Machinist at that rate of pay.

No.......The quad cities here have a few major employers that set the trent and wage exspectations for everyone in the area. Washington State University(Pullman Washinton), University of Idaho(Moscow Idaho) SEL (Pullman Washington), Potlatch (Lewiston Idaho),ATK(Lewiston Idaho)
I can assure you that NO machinist in any of these facilitities make the high end type of wages claimed by some here on this thread...Potlatch and ATK pay the best for machinist in this are and no one makes an hourly wage greater than the 20's. Benifets and all considered would be a toss up of the best company to work for.

Again....Location.....Location.....Location....
I left a job on the West coast to live here in Lewiston....I took a LARGE pay cut for the same knowlege, But that was my choice and a good one!
If you look at the different needs for a machinist (Aerospace vs Logging and Agriculture) than maybe you can begin to understand the geography of the mater..

I agreee 100% with Mad Marks Premise.... Everyone is worth what VALUE they ADD to the Company.

Stephen

[tobyaxis]

I agreee 100% with Mad Marks Premise.... Everyone is worth what VALUE they ADD to the Company.
Stephen

It would be nice to see this, but unfortunately for Machinists it is like finding a "Diamond in the Rough".

[makingchips]

Please dont misunderstand me. As a Production Manager I do not set the wages for the company , that is the Company President and General Managers responsibility. Additionally I stated "good" CNC machinist...Not "Exceptional"..or "Brillant"...or "Top Notch". And as a 30 yrs veteran in the trade I have worked with all the above. And in my opion no one above average should be worth less than 20.00/Hr.
However in looking at the Poll percentages it is interesting to note how close
all the wage windows exist. And that the lowest margin is in the UPPER wage bracket. I since this is primaraly a result of geographic location as opposed to any experience level valued result. Supply and demand can drive the winds of wages as well as the value of our properties. Unfortunately this can give some a false since of value realitive to there true value in the trade.(Either + or -)

As stated by tobyaxis in an earlier post

BTW: Most of the people I meet in Shops call themselves First Class Machinists, but they are nothing more than Overpaid Glorified Machine Operators, nothing more.

Here is a Test.

1) Go to a Mill guy and ask him to make an Arbor for an Indexing Head.

2) Go to a Lathe guy and ask him to make a Fixture for holding an irregular shaped part that need to be Turned.

3) Ask both to Sharpen a Drill buy hand.

4) Ask both to make a Gear on a Bridgeport.

5) Ask both to the other's Job for one day.

Try these and see what results you get. Chances are you will get a puzzled look or a "That's Not My Job" answer.

The answer you should get is NONE, they just go and do what was asked.

That is a Machinist!!!!!!

YAAAAAA......Well put tobyaxis
This is the Machinist I feel is VERY difficult to find at any wage!

But as I stated in my post earlier, I have a hard time even finding "good machinst".


CNC machinist with good milling and turning capabilities, tooling and planning abilities coupled with inspection plate skills will bring 16.00-20.00+/Hr. But WHERE ARE THEY.

Here is a little reality check for you. Take it from a past boss of mine ten years ago( now bankrupt) he had the same Manual Class A machinist attitude, whereas 1 machinist can make anything. That was true in the day of the old but in today's market it has become specialized a square head is and always will be a square head same for a round head. There is just to many variables in today's shop its not just turn this knob change this gear split point that turn this then go fly cut that not in a job shop anyway maybe in a support shop witch is like big foot (pun). In my shop I wouldn't expect a CNC Mill guy to go set up and run a lathe and vise versa Its just not productive there just totally two different ways of thinking.

Don't get me wrong I have come across a few people in my day who could do both jobs and good but we do not hire or advertise for hire expecting both.

But I do agree with #3 on your test Toby axis.

Here is a real life sinareo say I'm hiring some one for our 5axis DMU80t, he comes in knows the machine up and down. I give him your test he doesn't even know what a lathe is(pun) but I'm not looking for a lathe guy but in the future I might want some laughs and switch there jobs for the day. Oh but wait now I have a million dollars worth of machines crashed with a lathe door through the ceiling and two guys in the hospital.



So here is my breakdown.

CNC machinist Classes A,B,C,

Class C: apprentice should be able to tell the difference between the red and green buttons should also know the part needs to be on the stops load and unload parts and deburr between runs basic inspection skills required 10.00 to 14.00 hr


Class B: should know all of class C and be able to set tool heights, fixture offsets, basic setup and upkeep on there machine. advanced inspection required.14.00-18.00 hr

Class A: Program, Set up ,machine complex parts with multiple setups advanced knowledge of fixturing tool life and where to apply it. plus all of the above. 18.00-sky's the limit on this guy just keep him happy.

well this is my .02

Making Chips

[tobyaxis]

Making Chips,

I like your way of thinking and your rate of pay, but I have a question for you.

If the Mill guy has to do Secondary Machining for a Turned Part (and vs versa), don't you think it wise that the Lathe guy knows which Tolerances to hold tight so the Mill Guy doesn't have to fight to make a good part????

This isn't to poke fun or piss anyone off, but how would you make this part knowing that there are +-.0002 Tolerances on all the Bores, Perpendicularity, Concentricity, Parallelism, and True Positioning with Maximum Material Condition of +-.001. Plus it's Aluminum 6061-T6??? The Material came in as Cube and Round supplied by the Customer. (BTW: a lot of shops have to deal with this type of customer just to get work in their shop)

The Larges Bore has a back wall that is about .03 thick with a .019 wall on the Counter Bore if memory serves. Here is the Pic and the Solid Model, STEP, IGS, and DXF. Some of the Chamfers and Radii are missing do to the Software I had but these are fairly accurate Solid Models.

Parts like these require Machinists, right??? Or am I too "Old School" at age 33. I do realize that there will always be lots to learn, but there is never enough time.

Again, I'm not trying to be mean or rude with this question.

Cheers!!!!!!!

[dertsap]

im not sure i understand ,
with those types of conditions i hardly see a reason to have those machined on a lathe , they would need to be rough machined on the mill , sent to the lathe to bore ?? then sent back to the mill to finish ?

it would make more sense to me to do it all on the mill , the three bores position would be upheld as well as the perpendicularity , the only problem i could see is the large bore out of roundness ,which would be a problem anyhow if it was machined on the lathe because the minute you start removing material while profiling on the mill you can say goodbye to the +-.0002 boresize

i'm a mill guy

[makingchips]

Making Chips,

I like your way of thinking and your rate of pay, but I have a question for you.

If the Mill guy has to do Secondary Machining for a Turned Part (and vs versa), don't you think it wise that the Lathe guy knows which Tolerances to hold tight so the Mill Guy doesn't have to fight to make a good part???

You are giving them the print right?? The mill guy knows that the bore will be the tightest tolorance on the part he will set up and tram the bore to find center for his X,Y, zero the rest is cake. Also you do realize the part at 68F(shop temp) The lathe guy just brought the part over to the mill guy and now the bore is .0003 OOT Do you know why?

This isn't to poke fun or piss anyone off, but how would you make this part knowing that there are +-.0002 Tolerances on all the Bores, Perpendicularity, Concentricity, Parallelism, and True Positioning with Maximum Material Condition of +-.001. Plus it's Aluminum 6061-T6??? The Material came in as Cube and Round supplied by the Customer. (BTW: a lot of shops have to deal with this type of customer just to get work in their shop)

The Larges Bore has a back wall that is about .03 thick with a .019 wall on the Counter Bore if memory serves. Here is the Pic and the Solid Model, STEP, IGS, and DXF. Some of the Chamfers and Radii are missing do to the Software I had but these are fairly accurate Solid Models.

Parts like these require Machinists, right??? Or am I too "Old School" at age 33. I do realize that there will always be lots to learn, but there is never enough time.

Again, I'm not trying to be mean or rude with this question.

Cheers!!!!!!!

As long as they keep the part to supplyed tolorance specs. I dont see a problem also the more you move a part around the bigger the chance for Human error

That part can be done on:

A. 5 axis mill with 2 setups 3 tops.

B. lathe with live tooling.

C. All the CNC machines in the shop

You must have misunderstood me about my Machinist point of view.

Machinists of today are not a 1 man does it all kind of job.
They (We) are specialized in our trade.
There are CNC Mill machinists and there are CNC lathe machinists CNC router Machinists the list goes on.
Now with that said there are CNC machinists who are profishint in more than one, Lathe and mill this is generaly the guy who comes to work in an H2 and then the Vette the next day and is the last one to get laid off when things get tough.


Also if you give 10 machinists the same job there will be 10 different ways of doing it but in the end you will still have the same part. With that said this is my way of doing it.

Regards
Making Chips

[tobyaxis]

Maybe it's just me but I like to make my own arbores, fixtures, etc. Most of the shops out there have specialists that are very good at one thing.

One point that I didn't make is that one has to depend on the other in order to work. In other words,"If the Mill Guy is out sick for a week, the Lathe guy won't get that special Fixture that he needs to Turn an irregular shaped part".

One should be a little diversified in both Milling and Turning IMOP.

BTW: That part was done in 6 Setups for a very picky customer. It was a PITA but one can only use the equipment and tooling they are provided by the employer. I would have liked to do this part on the Nakamura-Tome TW10 with Live Tooling at a different shop in one setup, but that wasn't an option.

Cheers!!!!!

[tobyaxis]

im not sure i understand ,
with those types of conditions i hardly see a reason to have those machined on a lathe , they would need to be rough machined on the mill , sent to the lathe to bore ?? then sent back to the mill to finish ?

it would make more sense to me to do it all on the mill , the three bores position would be upheld as well as the perpendicularity , the only problem i could see is the large bore out of roundness ,which would be a problem anyhow if it was machined on the lathe because the minute you start removing material while profiling on the mill you can say goodbye to the +-.0002 boresize

i'm a mill guy

If you downloaded the solid and saw the cut away view you would have seen this on the inside of the Larger Bore. BTW: All Radii are +.005 -.000 Finishes on the Bores are to be a 16 micro Finish or better.

How would you make this part???? It isn't about just making the part, it's making an acceptable one and a method in which has to work without scrapping the whole job.

Cheers!!!!

[makingchips]

If you downloaded the solid and saw the cut away view you would have seen this on the inside of the Larger Bore. BTW: All Radii are +.005 -.000 Finishes on the Bores are to be a 16 micro Finish or better.

How would you make this part???? It isn't about just making the part, it's making an acceptable one and a method in which has to work without scrapping the whole job.

Cheers!!!!

Toby,
With all do respect this is not a hard part to manufacture. #1 its 6061 aluminum you can hold a 7 if not better finish on the bore using a boring head on a mill as for the under cuts a keyway cutter or clearanced ground endmill will take care of that.

I stick with my first responce no lathe is required.

The only time we have had to cross jobs is when we needed to make round stock out of flat stock to make the lathe guys job a little easyer because albemet doesent come in round.

If I had to make this job on both like you do I can see it being a challange.
Aluminum cavity fixturing is your friend on this job.

Regards

Making Chips

[dertsap]

If you downloaded the solid


It isn't about just making the part, it's making an acceptable one and a method in which has to work without scrapping the whole job.

Cheers!!!!

i did download it
and having to make it right would be a given now wouldn t it

[Cartesian-xyz]

I recall during my apprentiship in the late 70's that there were journeyman that excelled at there particular preference in the shop. George was a engine
and turret lathe master. Andy was a tool grinding machine. Walt was a tool maker genius. Frank was a magician on the profilers....ect
However all had the ablity to work in any capacity the shop needed.
Afterall either the part turns around or the cutter turns around...
The basic understanding of rigidity,chipload,surface feet, harmonics....ect
applies to both disiplines.

Today I see people that KNOW cnc milling or KNOW cnc turning...but have no Idea what rigidity, harmonics, chipload, depth of cut, horsepower ect...
have to do with there profession. Yes they may be able to use software XYZ to produce very effecient moves "IN THEORY" but in reality fail becuse they have had no accurate practical experience in machining. YET because they know CNC want premium money.

I have worked with machinist that were MILL people and Lathe people and had very little to offer in the opposite field. They were exceptional at what they did and were paid very well for there company contribution. These are the specialiest. Machinist that have learned the overall trade, But have dicided to focus in one direction and get very good!

Which brings me to my final point. Depending on the type of shop one operates, Job shop, Productions shop, Specialty shop, ect... will determine the machinist disipline needed.

If I have a small jobshop then I need people efficeient at turning milling and cnc work. This person will be worth more to ME than a VERY efficient CNC 5 axis programmer, and mill operator. Because chances are to be that good he probably would stumble along on the Lathe work needed daily by the jobshop.

Makingchips assesment of an ABC cnc operator value here in the US a agree with. "see my first post" which brings me to this question. "Are all the wages exspressed here US $ " if not then we are not comparing apples to apples!

Cheers to ALL
Stephen