Poll: What Plans Do we Want Cheaply?

[vacpress]

I have this desire to develop some or at least one of my device ideas into a set of "commercial plans" my plans will cost no more than $35, and will cost this because I want to offer a very nice set of full color plans, in binded book form. These would not be like what i have put up so far here. these would be step-by-step instructions with source lists, faqs, etc.

Full color means LOTS of pictures and illustrations. I am an "expert" industrial & graphic designer, and can produce plansets of a quality i have not seen yet.

I ask you : what should my first offering be?

Small Robot Arm - Total cost to build:$75-150

CNC Hot Wire Foam Cutter - Total cost to build:$75-300

CNC Foam Carver - Light weight rotary axis 3D carver: $100-300

Color CNC Gantry Printer - Plans $50.00 - Total cost :$100-300

Semi-Automatic Vacuum Forming Machine - Cost to build:200-500

Dont Bother?

[ger21]

Do you plan on actually building something, and thouroghly testing it to find any possible flaws, before you offer the plans?

[vacpress]

ger21- of course. most of these ideas are at least partially built allready.

i like the robot arm project, cuz i can include DXF files ready to be routed on "cheap CNC" machines. it could be a fun project for someone with a "lower echelon" CNC machine like an MDF router, etc... this is something all the projects would include. my $20 to 35 plansets would be similar to a real bound book, including a CD-ROM. these will cost me at least $5 each most likely, not counting for all that time spent supporting customers.

Ger21- i would probably put up a preliminary set or send them to some betatesters free.. regardless, the plans would document a build of an actual device, with a narrative form. supported by diagrams with dimensions, source-lists, schematics, PCB designs, etc.

the robot arm with a small computer controled clamp, could load PCBs in and out of a small mill all day.. maybe... probably.. if it had a neat registration system on the clamp system

whatever i decide to do first, I will do the hardpart of hunting down working "homebrew" sftware recomendations and at least for those allready listed, hardware. a 4th axis rotary for wood machines is another possible idea. the only plans i know of for a rotary table are no good.

if any of the "regulars" here were interested in building an idea as "betatesters" i would gladly send them all the materials I currently have, which is alot.. they would just have to keep a journal and take pictures of the build.. nothing to indepth..

anyone? please? it will give me motivation to actually finish one of these if some highly critical and sceptical engineer or machinist was giving me insight\insults.

i will add, those guessy prices dont include much for electronics. i will include full info on DIYing the electronics, but recomend commercial sources. there is a slimish link to an .RTF if the gantry printer thread that is what 2 pages of the intro to my plans would be like..

[Urgundiz]

What Plans Do we Want Cheaply?

PCB engraver, but is not in the poll..

[ger21]

I think what everyone here would want are both gantry, and moving table routers. There is really only one source for plans for under $100. If you could come up with plans for a 3 x 4 or 3 x 5 machine, that was easy to build, was fast (100ipm cutting speed), and inexpensive, and then throw on an optional 4th axis, people would be beating down you're door.

By far the busiest forum here is DIY wood routers. If you want to sell something, go to where the market is.

[alexg]

Originally posted by ger21 I think what everyone here would want are both gantry, and moving table routers. There is really only one source for plans for under $100. If you could come up with plans for a 3 x 4 or 3 x 5 machine, that was easy to build, was fast (100ipm cutting speed), and inexpensive, and then throw on an optional 4th axis, people would be beating down you're door. By far the busiest forum here is DIY wood routers. If you want to sell something, go to where the market is.

I comptetely agree.. A gantry router that is easy to build with common tools....

[vacpress]

yes. i knew that.... i want to do something a little quirky. plus - i dont have the funds to build a 100ipm gantry cutter myself. i have very little $$. i cant even spend $300 at any one time to buy 80/20 parts. i end up using plain-ol 1.25x1.25 alum square tubing.. and acrylic... and lots of hardwarestore alum and steel extrusion.. i think the robot arm is an obvious winner at this point - cheap, fun, etc... a gantry table that does 100ipm is not offered in a $30 planset for good reason..

the robot plans would cost no more than $15-$20 - postpaid..... maybe $25 for europe if it costs that much more to ship there...

if .pdfs were not SOO easy to share. i would do a digital distro also. maybe if i made each set of instructions have a password that was the purchasers creditcard # they would be less inclined to "share" the plans...

if i had help on this beast, i would put it out free.but noone will ever help me. my friends think im crazy, and on the internet people are very selfish.. they just want to get what they want out of most forums.. my favorite is people who think their very first attempt to build a very complex mechtronic device like a cnc machine is gonna replace their dayjob..


you will never build a 100ipm CNC device with hardware store parts for linear actuation - at THE LEAST, you will need ball screw, toothed belt, rack and pinion, or other locomotion.. this is not cheap.. even toothed belts seem to be very pricey.. even 10tpi leadscrew would require 1000rpm for 100ipm. i would not expect any stepper system to be accurate at those speeds. maybe at 600-800rpm, with propper acceleration.

i cant believe a 1inch toothed belt pully is $50. but, hey. it is.

[ger21]

Have a look at this thread here

My first Router / Plasma Table Buildup...

Using steppers and acme rod, he's tested it at well over 150ipm.

I never said anything about hardware store parts. You have to expect to spend a little bit of money (maybe more than a little) to get that kind of speed. But, you can get multiple start acme leadscrews for relatively cheap. I bought 6ft lengths of 2start, 8tpi for about $22 each. I noticed yesterday that you cna get 400+ oz-in Nema23 Vexta's for $150. You'll most likely need Geckos, as well. Of course the problem always lies with the linear bearings. From the trial assembly I did on my router (not yet finished), I think I'll get good results with my rollerblade bearing interpretation. You can see that here:
Another First Router
I'm hoping I can see at least 100ipm rapids or more. Time will tell. Even with motors and XYlotex drivers, I'll should end up at around $1000. For another $500, I could substitute THK type bearings. Maybe the B-W dualvee system on the longer axis if affordable THK's aren't available on Ebay. I think a $1500 3ft x 4 ft machine is attainable. And $35 plans would probably sell like crazy. But, I understand your position, I was just making a suggestion.

i would not expect any stepper system to be accurate at those speeds. maybe at 600-800rpm, with propper acceleration.

Why not? Shopbots can supposedly cut at 120ipm, rapid at twice that, with 300+ oz-in steppers. The Shopbot's limits in my opinion are the somewhat flimsy construction. Which they seem to be addressing with a new version (although it's $2000 more). Wer'e talking wood routers here, not precision metalworking mills.

[vacpress]

ger21-we will see how my current project goes. its a 1000-1500 36x36x6. i will likely try to add a 4th axis on the Z, so it can easily be upped to 5. each extra rotary costing like $200... i am looking at cheap $100 imported 4" rotary tables for the rotary axis joints. with fast servos, those might be the elbow joints for a full size robot arm concept i am working on..


homebrew robot arm, to go with your homebrew 6-axis. silly me

oh - whats 2 start acme rod?

[vacpress]

Ok.

i have come to a conclusion - i am going to do the robot arm plans this week, and put them up for free.

i am going to begin developing a set of plans for $35 to build a $1500 gantry machine. the required tools are going to be a drill press, band\scroll saw, set of taps, some way to cut square aluminum tubing.

i am considering producing a set of plexiglass drill templates that may be an additional product. all very cheap.

this will not be a project that relys on linear bearings from THK. it will use some sort of rollerblade bearings.

i like square aluminum tube. its economical and easy to work with, and easy to find localy and from online sources. its not t-slot extrusion, but its much cheaper.

stay tuned for the robot arm plans, free, i need to get the hobby servos to finish the thing..

should i make it a project that requires a small CNC mill and includes machine ready DXF files of the parts?

[ESjaavik]

Sell the plans really cheap. Don't allow copying (to keep rights), but don't enforce anything. This will contribute making them popular. A low price will also mean many just buy the plans to browse them without having committed to building. Or just to pick ideas from them.

Then incorporate some parts that are not very easy to make for everyone. Make these parts yourself, and sell them together with plans. These should of course be parts that needs to be somewhat complex because this makes it a better product. One obvious example is brackets that makes the product more rigid. From what I see on the net, that is the most repeated shortcut. Obvious examples are mills where little or no concern is made about what happens when cutting forces and rapid move of masses are applied to the construction. If you make a design that incorporate well thought out distribution of forces and masses, I'll be one of your customers rather than going through the tedious process of designing one myself.

I take your comments as a bait for starting a joint project here on CNCzone.com? OK, I take the bait with hook line and sinker if the project is a small CNC mill.

With the wealth of resources here, this could be both fun and educating.
VacPress, you obviously are a master 3D draftsman. And I've seen other postings around here that shows great knowledge ranging from demanding users to analytic problem solvers.

So isn't it just opening a forum on Open Source CNC Mill then? :-)
The software can be found over at www.linuxcnc.org, but there is no hardware.

[vacpress]

ESjaavik - that is essentially what i was suggesting in the "opesource cnc" thread i started. i really enjoy producing technical documentation, and was looking for a chance to work on the production and presentating art for some ideas beyond my technical abilities alone.. i can do PCB design, 3DCAD stuff, etc. and graphic design pretty well - thats my living and education, what i cant do is design a great motor driver, or a really well designed "engineered" mechanical device. I just have experience and common sense. No theoretical math background. THe deepest I go is my continued research on inverse kinematics for Robot Arms and Digitizing Arms.

I can do amazing things(i hope) with a "knowledgebase" of design data. things to make a design cheaper, lighter, stronger, etc. I really just like to make things look good though, and for plans, i would want them to be very illustrative and photographic. I bought plans from John Kleinbauer, and while they were a usefull design aid, they were the ugliest POS i ever spent $35 to own on paper. Who the hell does he think he is? Thats what i dont want to see. So silly..

BTW I allready started an "opensource CNC" discussion - your thought parallels mine exactly. I will hunt down the link.
Here:

Opensource CNC

hopefully that works!