Would you pass your knowledge on for free?

[JerryFlyGuy]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but what about info that you've accumulated outside of work. Ie, I've been researching and getting my head around CNC for the past 6-8 months. I've invested about 2-6 hr's each and every day and usually even more than that on weekends [ I know I don't have a life, so don't bother telling me ] , now say my boss finds out what I'm doing in my garage and say's "great, now you can design/build me a plasma cutter for the shop" Can I say NO, not w/out paying me for the info I've got in my head.??

Curious...

Jerry

[WhiteTiger]

I was in the same position a few times. Mostly I just taught as opportunity presented and that was fine with everyone.

One instance though, I was working commission and told the owner that I'd train if they assigned the trainee to me as a helper and paid me commission on his completions to offset my lost time/income. Turned out the "boss" was just looking for freebies and got pretty upset that I wouldn't agree to be penalised for his benefit.

Case by case consideration, I suppose.


Tiger

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by JerryFlyGuy I don't want to hijack the thread, but what about info that you've accumulated outside of work.... Can I say NO, not w/out paying me for the info I've got in my head.?? Curious... Jerry

Of course you can say no and insist on a separate negotiation aside from your employment. The employer has no investment in your knowledge of cnc and no claim on it.

Might cost you the job, if the employer has the rather typical feudal attitude about employees (ie- serfs to be ordered about at whim), but your knowledge of cnc is the result of your own off the job time and effort and has nothing to do with the employer, hence is not the employers to lay claim to in any fashion. (imo, anyway)


Tiger

[Carel]

JerryFlyGuy: Skills you develop separately from your work at home (like inventing winecorkscrew #65892 as a bookkeeper) are your own Intellectual Property. If your boss wants to use incidentaly these skills, you make an agreement for the case and charge according to the agreement.

Carel

[lakeside]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger but your knowledge of cnc is the result of your own off the job time (imo, anyway) Tiger

THAT THE QUESTION WHAT DID YOU REALY LEARN OFF THE JOB. MOST CNC PROGRAMER AND SET-UP PEOPLE LEARN ON THE JOB AND ON THE CLOCK. IF YOUR THE LEADMAN THEN IT'S YOUR JOB. DESIGN LIKE GERRY tHE FLY SAYS IS NOT CNC. BUT ENGEERING THAT SOMETHING YOUR BOSS HAS TO PAY FOR. WEATHER IT YOU OR SOMEONE ELSE. BUT WHEN IT ON PAPER THE MACHINIST MUST DO WHAT THE PRINT SAYS EVEN IF YOU KNOW IT WRONG!!

[vacpress]

ive taught alot of people alot of things. it always has and always will make me happy.

beleive me. your 30 years of optical experience will not be stolen by some trainee. assuming half your skill is based on hands on experience, it would take decades for most people to catch up - add to that the craftyness of diamond\gem cutting and what you really have is probably a chance for a)an easier job(assuming you are on salary) b)the possibility of becomming the leader of a whole division of gem cutters.... c)the chance to learn something yourself throguh pupil\mentor interaction... d)the chance to really show your employeer how valuable you are when they see how long it takes another person to assume your responsibilities.

calling this 'free' is disingenuous and snotty. you didnt learn how to operate these extremely expensive machines and processes in your backyard - you learned it on other people machines. AND they paid you... they didnt even do it for free. they taught you for NEGATIVE $s.. suckers!

[mxtras]

Originally Posted by vacpress ...beleive me. your 30 years of optical experience will not be stolen by some trainee. assuming half your skill is based on hands on experience, it would take decades for most people to catch up....

Excellent point and well put!

It sounds like this job is as much (or more) of an art than it is a process (the diamond machining part, not the CAD or software aspect). There is little a trainee can do other than attempt to gain your artistic insights. Perhaps the training you provide will shave a few years off the learning curve, but it still takes experience and that's not, as you know, exactly teachable.

Scott

[lakeside]

it is kind of funny that we will help out each other on this site. But can't do it a work?

[MrWild]

I know a fellow that trained a new worker to fix and adjust mail sorting machines. The company then let the guy go due to his 18 years of seniority and wage/benifit package compared to the new guy. All worked out for the better for my friend as he ended up in a less stressful and better paying job doing the same thing due to his experience and knowledge. The old company has been losing $$$ due to downtime caused by the new guys lack of experience so it is especially sweet justice for my friend.

On the other hand I came up through a shop and everyone with experience was expected to impart their ways of doing things. In a tool room that specialized in one off form/pierce dies, welding fixtures, and slitter/form roll machines, there was an eclectic variety of ways to get the job done. Machinist trainees and apprentices would get put with other machinists/ tool and die makers and as each imparted the way he went about squaring a block, roughing, finishing, or even attacking the entire job the newbee would be able to pick and choose the method that best worked with his own style of doing things.

The beauty of the shop was that very few machines had their own specific day in and day out operators. The broad depth of knowledge from planning the material draw and steps of operation for each job made a well rounded out tradesman. Now during it all, I went to tech college to get better at math on my own dime. Should I have begrudged the effort I spent advancing my knowledge? It added job security. It allowed me to do my job with less effort. I have to admit I didn't always see comensorate raises to my new knowledge which ultimately helped profits, but there is the sense of self satisfaction that is a worthy goal in and of itself.

I try to give as full depth of explaination/knowledge as the person is comfortable with. The thing is, I enjoy teaching others. If I die tomorrow, all of it is gone forever. If one person is aided or one bit of my knowledge lives on through the training of another, I become immortal in a sense. What I learned continues onward.

I say train the guy. Don't sweat production to the point of ulcers. You've got a few years until he is good. Who knows, the guy might be only good enough to hit the button and make chips. That is still no reason not to enjoy some comraderie. a coffee break, or just general shooting the ****.

[ynneb]

Even though I ticked the yes box, I hadnt read your post first.
After reading the post I would say NO in your situation.
There are a few issues here.

Are you employed to drill or teach? If your answer is "do any thing the boss asks me to do", what would you say if he now told you your job has now changed, he now wants you to scrub toilet bowls all day? You are faced with a choice to comply or leave. You have the same choice here. You are employed because you have a rare skill. If he wants to change the terms of employment, then its up to you to test him out, and how much he values yours skills. What is stopping you from setting up your own bussiness and doing the same job, why should your boss profit from you if you can do it all for yourself anyway. Now he wants to have more do the same thing for him as well, and he doesnt want to pay for it. If your skill is so rare and so called for, Id drop the boss and go out for myself.

I bet if bussiness went bad and the boss had to lay you off, he wouldnt be posting in some forum asking if it was morally right to get rid of this guy.

Sorry I might sound rather anti boss here. But in my experience they are all similar, they will get whatever you give them, and if you put in over and above they will sap the benifits of that too, but when you are no use to them, they will ditch you like a used tissue.

[JerryFlyGuy]

Ynneb, some of what you say is true, however there are some other factors to take into concideration also. #1 has your[or his] employer treated you fairly in the past. #2 Are you terribly overloaded w/ work. #3 if you lose your job, do you have other networked solutions [ another job in the wings] #4 is it possible that your boss is actually trying to help you out and take some of the stress off [ more likely a long term thing] #5 Is business growing faster than you can keep up. #6 Does he have future plans that might include a larger contract and the need to have "two or more trained tech's " on paper to get the contract.

There's usually more than just what your getting. Now if they guy has a history of " My-way-itis " and you've never really been treated as a valued fella in the shop then you may have some grounds to stand for some fair treatment. If not then maybe its time for a change of venue.

I've also heard of the opposite thing happening to an employer. A schedule had been set that everyone had agreed to, this included Xmas holidays and who had to work over [ I think it was a fair percentage of the shop] , come Xmas eve, the whole shop [ personel] just walked out and said see ya after new years. Whats an employer to do at that point?? So fair treatment can be a two way street.

My 2 cents.. and outside perspective..

Jerry

[Geof]

Benny; Your major paragraph brought up some good points but the tone on which you finished your post is offensive and distasteful. From my own experience of spending several thousand dollars sending an employee to technical school and then coaching them for almost two years in programming and setup only to have them abandon their job a few months later I could generalize and say all employees will just take you for a ride and are not worth doing anything for. But I don't because I have some employees who have stayed with me for ten and fifteen years or more. Perhaps you should take an inward look; many times the treatment or attitude you receive in any situation is merely a reflection of the treatment or attitude you hand out.