DIYENGINEER 4'x12' 80/20 CNC PLASMA TABLE

[diyengineer]

Main intent: Cut nested parts made of aluminum/steel from sheet. (.063"-xx)
Size: usable 4'x12'
Electronics and motors: cnc4pc.com, servos/steppers Undecided.
Drive system: Rack and Gear
Linear rails: Undecidied
Structure: Bolt together 80/20 aluminum extrusion.
Plasma cutter: undecided- Miller, Hobart, etc.

I would like to be able to cut nested pieces from 4'x12' sheet metal. primarily thin (.063") aluminum. If the plasma cutter can "also" cut steel that's great. Please help me fill in my question marks so i can start the machine design.

I would like a fast accurate machine for light production.

Below is what i saw, and caught my eye.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XARu4bLXZnM&feature=fvwrel]‪Nested Mechanical Parts Cut on CNC Plasma Table‬‏ - YouTube

I do have a syncrowave 200 tig miller welder, but i do not possess the welding skills currently to accurately weld up the entire frame and have it square and level. 80/20 is more user friendly at least for me at this point in time. Id also like to bolt on the rails, and try and buy as much as possible for ease of assembly.

Thanks for helping!



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[diyengineer]

I assume i should narrow down to which plasma cutter to use, since this truly would be the heart of the machine. I have single phase 220V in my shop.

Forcecut 80I 80amp cnc compatible ($1099)
ForceCut 80I | IGBT 80AMP PLASMA CUTTER

Hobart?

Miller?

Everlast?

Need to be cnc compatible i assume.

[diyengineer]

Glacern Machine Tools - Linear Rails and Bearings

I think i found my Linear rails. They will directly bolt to metric 80/20. I would have to go with the 2640mm kit for $299 (roughly 103 inches on Y axis). The price is right. The x axis needs to fit roughly 48", so i will have to buy a bit longer one.

[diyengineer]

I'm fairly set on the CNCROUTERPARTS.COM setup. !! looks amazing!

[Tensaiteki]

I assume i should narrow down to which plasma cutter to use, since this truly would be the heart of the machine. I have single phase 220V in my shop.

Forcecut 80I 80amp cnc compatible ($1099)
ForceCut 80I | IGBT 80AMP PLASMA CUTTER

Hobart?

Miller?

Everlast?

Need to be cnc compatible i assume.

I would highly recommend Hypertherm.

Initially I had the ForceCut 80i on the table I built/am building (thread: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/plasma...nc_plasma.html ). Now I am running a Hypertherm Powermax 85.

The Longevity works just fine for a handheld system but (in my experience) is a real pain on a CNC table.

For starters, the raw arc volts output on the CNC plug weren't correct, I had to go into the machine and bypass the "CNC board" to get the real arc volts.

Also, the arc ok/arc Xfer signal comes on when the pilot arc fires, not when the arc is actually transferred to the workpiece. This can lead to motion occurring a little too early. Sometimes it would send out the arc ok signal when the torch didn't even fire.

I also had problems with the 80i not extinguishing the arc once the arc off signal was sent, so the torch would keep firing on the way to the next cut and then shut off when it got the arc on signal to start the next cut.

Further, the "machine torch" for the 80i is some oddball shape that doesn't fit any standard torch holders, and is rather difficult to make a custom holder for. The "machine torch" also has a trigger/switch on it for no apparent reason.

The 80i also uses only unshielded consumables. This means that the first time a part tips up and hits the tip of the torch while it is firing (this is very common) you will get double arcing that damages the tip so it will not cut straight. I was going through tips at about the same rate that 105mm howitzer shells were used be used during the first few hours of the Battle of the Bulge.

Finally, the 80i uses high frequency starting that puts out enough interference that it can, and probably will, play merry hell with your electronics. I had to completely disable my emergency stop inputs just to keep the table controller from stopping every other time the torch fired, even though I grounded it according to recommendations.

Since switching to the Hypertherm 85 I haven't had any issues with high-frequency interference because it used a blow-back start method instead of HF. The Hypertherm can also uses shielded consumables so tip-ups don't damage the tip/nozzle. On my first set of consumables (65 amp) I produced more than 300 parts with well over 700 pierces from 3/16" - 3/8" steel and 1/4" aluminum. Of all those parts, I can think of only 3 times when the torch failed to fire, and tat was at the end of the life of that consumable set.

Since you will mostly be doing thin aluminum and steel I think a Hypertherm Powermax 45 (smaller version of the 85) would work nicely for you.

Also, highly recommended using a real machine torch, instead of trying to save a few bucks by modifying or hacking a hand torch to work under CNC control.

[diyengineer]

thank you for the awesome reply.

I researched the Hypertherm 45 as you suggested and it seemed like the obvious choice. YouTube had some great videos on it as well!! Where is the best place online to buy one with a machine torch?

I also plan on using a G540 4 axis gecko controller for nice plug and play operation.

Where do i look for a Machine torch holder for the hypertherm 45?

Thank you Tensaiteki!

I would highly recommend Hypertherm.

Initially I had the ForceCut 80i on the table I built/am building (thread: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/plasma...nc_plasma.html ). Now I am running a Hypertherm Powermax 85.

The Longevity works just fine for a handheld system but (in my experience) is a real pain on a CNC table.

For starters, the raw arc volts output on the CNC plug weren't correct, I had to go into the machine and bypass the "CNC board" to get the real arc volts.

Also, the arc ok/arc Xfer signal comes on when the pilot arc fires, not when the arc is actually transferred to the workpiece. This can lead to motion occurring a little too early. Sometimes it would send out the arc ok signal when the torch didn't even fire.

I also had problems with the 80i not extinguishing the arc once the arc off signal was sent, so the torch would keep firing on the way to the next cut and then shut off when it got the arc on signal to start the next cut.

Further, the "machine torch" for the 80i is some oddball shape that doesn't fit any standard torch holders, and is rather difficult to make a custom holder for. The "machine torch" also has a trigger/switch on it for no apparent reason.

The 80i also uses only unshielded consumables. This means that the first time a part tips up and hits the tip of the torch while it is firing (this is very common) you will get double arcing that damages the tip so it will not cut straight. I was going through tips at about the same rate that 105mm howitzer shells were used be used during the first few hours of the Battle of the Bulge.

Finally, the 80i uses high frequency starting that puts out enough interference that it can, and probably will, play merry hell with your electronics. I had to completely disable my emergency stop inputs just to keep the table controller from stopping every other time the torch fired, even though I grounded it according to recommendations.

Since switching to the Hypertherm 85 I haven't had any issues with high-frequency interference because it used a blow-back start method instead of HF. The Hypertherm can also uses shielded consumables so tip-ups don't damage the tip/nozzle. On my first set of consumables (65 amp) I produced more than 300 parts with well over 700 pierces from 3/16" - 3/8" steel and 1/4" aluminum. Of all those parts, I can think of only 3 times when the torch failed to fire, and tat was at the end of the life of that consumable set.

Since you will mostly be doing thin aluminum and steel I think a Hypertherm Powermax 45 (smaller version of the 85) would work nicely for you.

Also, highly recommended using a real machine torch, instead of trying to save a few bucks by modifying or hacking a hand torch to work under CNC control.

[diyengineer]

The base with steel linear rails. I need the mechanical files from cncrouterparts.com to go any further. Trying to think of a slick way to hold all the water + hold the steel 3"x 1/8" slats. Hmmmm...

This design is fluid, nothing in stone. Already revised it about 5 times according to cost and structural integrity.

A 144"x52"x3" cubic tank of water is roughly 22,464 cubic inches or 97 gallons. @ 8.3 pounds per gallon of water, that is roughly 805 pounds of liquid the structure must hold on top of its own weight + material weight.

I was honestly thinking of letting it sit on my garage floor since its fairly level. No need for fancy bracing then, and it would save some $.

I need watertank ideas!

Once complete i will load up a bill of materials, and the solid works files.

Structure: 80/20
-1545
-1530
-3060- (gantry)

Rails: 1/4" Cold Rolled Steel
Gear Rack: Moore Gear
z axis: K2cnc 6" plasma w/ torch mount
Mechanical drive/bearing components+ gantry towers: cncrouterparts.com
Plasma: Hypertherm XX (undecided)
Electronics: G540 + steppers

[silyavski]

hi Diyengineer,
i am also thinking about building sth like this.I also went to the conclusion that i will leave it on the floor to save some money for structure. What i want though is to be a router and a plasma at the same time and to be able to cut 2500mm x 1300mm, so now i am in doubt about the raised or no gantry design, though i have one thing clear. Instead of relying on the floor to support it I am thinking about raising it with multiple cone shaped bolt legs, i mean like spikes which in my opinion will minimize any vibration and will claw to the floor or to the center of some plates i fix on the floor. Like the spiked legs Pro loudspeakers use to cut the vibrations. Also this will prevent any flex as they will be bolted so i can carefully adjust the height.
some questions though:
is a 3" deep water bead enough for a 80A cutter?
how you will protect the rails from the water drops and rust?
do you plan on extending the rails to move the gantry away when loading the table?
if you don't like my spiked legs idea how you plan to fix it straight to the floor?

[diyengineer]

A quick update before work.. ill get more done tonight.

[diyengineer]

I think for now i'm going to keep it simple and not use a water table. My design is flexible enough to easily add in a waterbed at any point in time thanks to the 80/20.

[diyengineer]

A little more.

[arewehavingfun]

I assume i should narrow down to which plasma cutter to use, since this truly would be the heart of the machine. I have single phase 220V in my shop.

Forcecut 80I 80amp cnc compatible ($1099)
ForceCut 80I | IGBT 80AMP PLASMA CUTTER

Hobart?

Miller?

Everlast?

Need to be cnc compatible i assume.

Hello,
I found myself in the same position your in. I would highly recommend at least looking at the Everlast Powerplasma 60C. It even comes with the correct torch body for your CNC. Hypertherm is a very good cutter, no doubt about that. However, it is of my opinion that the Everlast will perform as good as the Hypertherm. Also, take a look at Lincoln Electric. BTW, they just bought out Torchmate.

I also have a thread started on building my machine. You may want to look how I'm designing my rail system. I will have more on that subject very soon. There is no doubt in my opinion that my rail system will perform as well as the expensive stuff for the fraction of the cost. I'll keep my build open source so everyone can try to build it too. I will also have part #'s to help out.


Good luck with your build.

Joe

[Dustin407]

I think for now i'm going to keep it simple and not use a water table. My design is flexible enough to easily add in a waterbed at any point in time thanks to the 80/20.

I highly recommend a water table right away for this size machine... Why not put one in during your build?? I know your anxious about cutting but taking the extra time to make one is well worth the time and money...

[diyengineer]

Hello,
I found myself in the same position your in. I would highly recommend at least looking at the Everlast Powerplasma 60C. It even comes with the correct torch body for your CNC. Hypertherm is a very good cutter, no doubt about that. However, it is of my opinion that the Everlast will perform as good as the Hypertherm. Also, take a look at Lincoln Electric. BTW, they just bought out Torchmate.

I also have a thread started on building my machine. You may want to look how I'm designing my rail system. I will have more on that subject very soon. There is no doubt in my opinion that my rail system will perform as well as the expensive stuff for the fraction of the cost. I'll keep my build open source so everyone can try to build it too. I will also have part #'s to help out.


Good luck with your build.

Joe

I couldn't find the machine torch option on there website? Do you have a link?
Also, The "C" denotes 3 phase power which i don't have available to me. I did see most of them use High Frequency Start, which i have read a few negative things about if the correct precautions are not taken care of regarding shielding etc. The power plasma 50 though uses blowback start which seems to be a better option. If you have a link to the machine torch let me know!

[arewehavingfun]

I couldn't find the machine torch option on there website? Do you have a link?
Also, The "C" denotes 3 phase power which i don't have available to me. I did see most of them use High Frequency Start, which i have read a few negative things about if the correct precautions are not taken care of regarding shielding etc. The power plasma 50 though uses blowback start which seems to be a better option. If you have a link to the machine torch let me know!

Actually, the Everlast PP60C uses high voltage/low frequency to start. Chart of the plasma's are here Plasma Cutter, Plasma cutters, plasma cutting equipment, Power Plasma, plasmacutters
I was going to buy the PP50 but, Mark from Everlast recommended that I go with the PP60C because the CNC type torch comes with it. Torch can be viewed here PowerPlasma 60C - Plasma Cutting System, Welder Tig, Welders, Welder Miller, Multi Purpose Unit

I have come to find out that Everlast Customer service is incredible and they also offer a five year warranty. I will certainly let you know how it goes for me.

[diyengineer]

Actually, the Everlast PP60C uses high voltage/low frequency to start. Chart of the plasma's are here Plasma Cutter, Plasma cutters, plasma cutting equipment, Power Plasma, plasmacutters
I was going to buy the PP50 but, Mark from Everlast recommended that I go with the PP60C because the CNC type torch comes with it. Torch can be viewed here PowerPlasma 60C - Plasma Cutting System, Welder Tig, Welders, Welder Miller, Multi Purpose Unit

I have come to find out that Everlast Customer service is incredible and they also offer a five year warranty. I will certainly let you know how it goes for me.

$949 for the entire unit with the machine torch!? Did i just read that correctly? do you have 3 phase power? If not how do you plan on running that?

[arewehavingfun]

$949 for the entire unit with the machine torch!? Did i just read that correctly? do you have 3 phase power? If not how do you plan on running that?

I do have three-phase in my shop.

They are priced very well.

[arewehavingfun]

I'm wondering if you could use the PP60C torch on the PP50? I'll try to find out. The PP50 is like $750.

[arewehavingfun]

OK, great news I think. The PP60C will also be available in one phase models too. Also, it appears that the PP50 will have an option for a CNC torch.

I was actually beginning to worry, as my shop has three phase but my hanger does not. This was going to be a problem for sure.

Looking forward to following your progress.

Joe

[diyengineer]

50% done? haha.. lots left to do.