MultiPic programmer for DIY'ers

[slp_prlzys]

hi guys,

if any1 is interested in building
your own programmer try this
i built it and it's working real well (atleast with pc18f452
and 16f877A), programming is
a little slow with IC-prog, but lightning fast with winpic.
I had to redraw it in eagle, so I could output an HPGL file for my
ancient 7470a plotter, and I used IDC instead of DB9 connector
I have attached the sch&brd if any1 is interested.
Note that your serial port should have >7.5volts OR <-7.5volts
on pins 3,4,7 with respect to pin5 as stated in the link.

I'm just starting with PIC and electronics, it's slow but I'm
learning.

okidoc!

[TinkerDJ]

I'm in the same boat, i have been playing with pics for about a year now and i keep running out of time and end up with other projects taking over my time. I built the icd2 clone programmer from soltz.de.be his site has a nice layout and you can download the designs and built what you need as well. The neat thing about the icd2 clone is that it works directly with the pic microchips mplab. He also has a design that works from the usb. I built the serial port version and it works fine. I also built the picpro40 and have used it from the parrallel port. I've found one really good source for pic projects and software is from eponline magazine. A subscription is 15 dollars a year and they have alot of pic projects usually one or more a month.

[keebler303]

Assuming "Competitor M" is the authentic PicKit2 from Microchip, which I think it is, judging by the price, your chart is not very accurate.

The microchip pickit2 can provide power to an external circuit or be powered by an external circuit.
Doesn't need Vpp pumping, pull downs, or hardware modification.
Instead of an RJ12 it has a 6 pin .1" header, which is cheaper per board and also easier for the hobbyist to find.

You shouldn't have any load on the Vpp source, so more current there is not any advantage.

That explains all the differences between the pickit and your clone. They are the same cost for (possibly) the same thing. Why would I (or anyone else) spend the same money on a clone when they can get the real thing. The microchip pickit2 is guaranteed to work with a HUGE list of pic micros, 3rd party maybe not. Unless of course you are using THEIR firmware on your COPY of THEIR hardware.

Matt

[FunnyNYPD]

Greeting keebler303:
"External power supply circuit" means dedicated power supply circuits for programmer-to-go (PTG) feature, those are some additional circuits to the USB +5V power supply (inside of BB0703/BB0703+). Some of our customer can download a new firmware for their particular product into our BB0703, send it to their customer with a 9~12V AC/DC wall-mount power supply. The end user only need power up the BB0703 from the AC/DC wall-mount power supply, then a push of the button can download new firmware into the PICs. No PC or uc experience is required on the end-user side. We also used it for our assembly line, it doesn't require PC experience to operate BB0703 PTG.

(Here is an youtube video on how programmer-to-go functions without a PC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phPkZD4BTdE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phPkZD4BTdE

This is an unique feature from Au Group Electronics. Here is the schematic reflect this circuit on the top right corner.
http://www.auelectronics.com/pdfs/CB..._Schematic.pdf

[FunnyNYPD]

The microchip pickit2 can provide power to an external circuit

Yes. All Microchip recommended PICkit 2 design can provide about 30mA load to external circuits.

or be powered by an external circuit.

No. Neither can BB0703/BB0703+ be power by an external application circuits. They (PICkit 2, BB0703/BB0703+) can detect the Vdd existence from external circuits though.

BB0703/BB0703+ has interface and internal circuit to allow them been power from external power (not powered by external circuits).

[FunnyNYPD]

Doesn't need Vpp pumping, pull downs, or hardware modification.

Well, you can check and see.

Here is some official Microchip post on how to do Vpp pumping, and how to fix the issues with hardware modifications:

Here is the history link for "Pump" Your PICkit 2's VPP and why it is needed occasionally:
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m...pp%F1%94%99%AE

Here is the history link for hardware changes on Microchip version of PICKit2 with black button:
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=245280

Here is a step by step guide (pdf file in a zip) on how to do the hardware change:
http://forum.microchip.com/attachment.aspx?m=245280

Here is the history link for Hardware modification on how to use Microchip version of PICkit 2 Programmer-To-Go with Energizer Energi To Go(TM) and why it is needed for PTG:
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m...y=%F1%9A%94%82

Note: Those hardware changes only required when user's application requires, and it only apply to Microchip version of PICkit 2 design.

P.s. The PICkit 2 schematic is a very good design. Some of the listed issue are mainly hardware design issue (e.g. components used, new application situation not exist when the components was picked. etc.). And the Microchip PICkit 2 design team and support team are the best I have ever known.

[FunnyNYPD]

You shouldn't have any load on the Vpp source, so more current there is not any advantage.

Now, this is absolutely required for certain "newly" released PIC which requires about 5mA max on the Vpp supply. And not all of today's programmer can provide this kind of current supply.

That's why a Microchip official hardware change guide on all version of PICkit 2 is posted here:
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m...pp%F1%94%99%AE

[FunnyNYPD]

They are the same cost for (possibly) the same thing.

No. Not from we know. Performance side, Our design don't have those Microchip posted hardware/component design issues.

And no 256K EEPROM version of PICkit 2 is available from Microchip, you have to modify the circuits all by yourself. Though, there is an official hardware modification guide on the Programmer-to-GO users manual.

On the opposite side, We have "BB0703+256K" which natively has 256K I2C EEPROM for Programmer-to-Go feature. USB buck/boost regulator is standard on all BB0703+ products. And this USB buck/boost regulator is another unique feature available exclusively from Au Group Electronics.

So, I don't think that would be the same thing.

The plus side is: Our design not only includes all Microchip recommended schematic design, it also includes our own design on type-B/Mini-B USB connectors, RJ12 Connectors, dedicated power regulator circuits for external power supply, USB buck/boost regulator, etc. Apparently our hardware design team did a better job.

[FunnyNYPD]

The microchip pickit2 is guaranteed to work with a HUGE list of pic micros, 3rd party maybe not.

Not so sure if it is absolute true.
E.g. according to the Microchip official posted hardware modification guide, for certain PIC chip, you will have to "pump" the Vpp circuit for more juice, otherwise, it might not work at all.

Also there are many PIC chips' programming specification requiring 4.6V or above Vdd supply. The original design (this is true even for our BB0703) heavily count on the PC's USB +5V supply. However, Per USB industry standard, any PC USB voltage supply between 4.2V to 5.2V will meet the requirement. I don't see how you can secure a reliable programming when some PC/Laptop can only supply a 4.2V on its USB bus. (I do encounter a 4.0V voltage on my laptop USB and 4.4V voltage on my USB hub. So, this is not something unusual.)
(P.s. Also this doesn't mean you will definitely encounter an issue when USB voltage is <4.6V, it means you got potential to fail. My personal experience shows it may still work when USB voltage is close to 4.6V.)

The BB0703+128K and BB0703+256K are designed to overcome this USB voltage variation issue. Both product include dedicated USB Buck/Boost circuits which can regulate normal USB supply (4.2V~5.2V) to +5V voltage.

[FunnyNYPD]

Unless of course you are using THEIR firmware on your COPY of THEIR hardware.

Honestly, there is no much on THEIR, there is always WE/OUR PICKIT 2.

Here is why:
The PICkit 2 schematic and source code (both PIC2550 uc side and PC application side) is opened to the public. And it allows user modify the source code, just like any regular open-source projects. Many people has contributed to the PICkit 2 on the design level, including Au Group Electronics.

Now, there is Mac version and Linux version (both are generated and maintained by open-community) can be downloaded from Microchip web site. There is also command line version available. (All source code are available too.)

As a matter of fact, we are currently working on source code level with Microchip team on some PICkit2 features. I don't think we treat each other as competitors. We work together for a better product.

For all those unique feature (BB0703/BB0703+) available exclusively from Au Group Electronics, we think we are contributing to the PIC community.

[keebler303]

Originally Posted by FunnyNYPD Greeting keebler303: ...Some of our customer can download a new firmware for their particular product into our BB0703, send it to their customer with a 9~12V AC/DC wall-mount power supply....

I don't see how this is much different from providing an AC to mini usb wall mount power supply such as the chargers for some mp3 players, phones, GPS, etc. Different cord but same function.

...can detect the Vdd existence from external circuits though...

You are right, that is what I was thinking of, my mistake.

...hardware changes on Microchip version of PICKit2 with black button...

This is an update for an OBSOLETE product, which is no longer sold by Microchip.

Some of the listed issue are mainly hardware design issue (e.g. components used, new application situation not exist when the components was picked. etc.)....

Exactly. The "needed" hardware modifications are to make the old black button model work with the new PIC's. Their current product will work with ALL models of PIC given that their spec. for ICSP is followed. If you follow the MCLR loading recommendations (which isn't hard to do) it will work on all models.
Your comparison is like saying that your color TV is better than Joe Blow's B&W TV because yours is color, completely neglecting the fact that Joe Blow also has a color TV and has posted directions online how to turn his old B&W TV into a color one if you don't want to buy a new one.
There is no way microchip, or more so you, can predict what will be needed in the future. That's why there are hardware revisions. Undoubtedly your programmer would not work on some PIC models if it was designed now and used a couple years later.

Now, this is absolutely required for certain "newly" released PIC which requires about 5mA max on the Vpp supply. And not all of today's programmer can provide this kind of current supply.

Microchip PicKit2 can provide 6ma, spec met. All PicKit2 that Microchip sells currently will program even these new PICs, albeit barely.

They are the same cost for (possibly) the same thing. No. Not from we know. Performance side, Our design don't have those Microchip posted hardware/component design issues. And no 256K EEPROM version of PICkit 2 is available from Microchip, you have to modify the circuits all by yourself. Though, there is an official hardware modification guide on the Programmer-to-GO users manual.

I said same cost, you don't have a 256K version for $35 either. I was specifically comparing between your BB0703 and Microchip PicKit2. I am asking what makes your model a better choice over the REAL PicKit2 for the same price.

Other than a bit more robust Vpp source, I see nothing of substance.

In my eyes, if you're going to take a company's schematic, firmware, AND name to make a clone of their product, it needs to either be cheaper, or significantly better in some way.

FYI: PICkit is a registered trademark of Microchip Technology.

Regards
Matt

[FunnyNYPD]

I don't see how this is much different from providing an AC to mini usb wall mount power supply such as the chargers for some mp3 players, phones, GPS, etc. Different cord but same function.

You are assuming the +5V output from those third party AC/DC power supplier are precisely regulated. The power supplier quality for battery charger may be different than the quality a microcontroller system requires.

(it is not included in Microchip's PICkit2 neither, customer has to find/pay one all by themselves or buy whatever recommended by Microchip from third parties.)

All BB0703 and BB0703+ has dedicated external power regulation circuits which can regulate a +9V~+12V DC input to stable +5V supply.

On Microchip programmer-to-go users' manual and One of the Microchip posted hardware fix, some battery based third party products are recommended. It not only adds cost to the end user but also requires possible hardware modification on PICkit 2.

If you use those battery based power supply, better keep an eye on the state of charge of the battery (In case you run out of battery). Not even mention the used batteries always adding pollution to the environment.