CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net!



Home Page Mark Forums Read Today's Posts My Replies Classifieds Reviews Photo Gallery Web Links Share Files Advertise With Us Ad List
Go Back   CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net! > Electronics > Phase Converters and VFD


Phase Converters and VFD Running 3 phase machines on single phase power and variable frequency drive discussion


This forum is sponsored by:

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Ban this user!
Old 09-19-2011, 02:44 PM
OFG OFG is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 3
OFG is on a distinguished road
Rotary phase converter problem

I have a 240V rotary phase converter with a 15HP motor on it. It is about 30 years old, and I decided to shotgun the capacitors - 12 caps in parallel, each is a 50 mfd 377 volt cap. It was working when removed from service, but the caps were looking corroded and I wanted to work on it when I had time.
I put the new caps in, and it started / ran great.
Tried it again to check the motor bearings, still great. Coasted a long time, bearings sound fine.
My buddy decided to try it with a motor when I was not around, and paralleled a 3 HP 3PH motor right across the 3 motor leads.
When he turned on the breaker, it sounded like it was single phasing and would not spin.
I took off the 3 hp motor, and it still would not spin - sounds like the motor is single phasing.
I checked all the capacitors with an industrial capacitor tester, they are all good.
I unhooked all the capacitors and took the motor to a motor shop and put it on 3PH 230V, it started and ran great - very smooth, even current on each leg.
I put another set of known good capacitors on it and tried it on my original 245V 1PH supply - it still won't start - still sounds like it is single phasing.
I can't start spinning the motor with a rope, because the factory cut the shaft off and capped the shaft on both ends.
I am kind of stuck here - does anyone have a suggestion for what I can try next?
Thanks in advance -
Old Fat Guy
Reply With Quote

  #2  
Old 09-19-2011, 03:32 PM
Al_The_Man's Avatar
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 16,544
Al_The_Man is on a distinguished road
Buy me a Beer?

It sounds like your start circuit is not working? how is it started by start cap and PB and or PB & timer.
Al.
__________________
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Machine Design.
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
Reply With Quote

  #3   Ban this user!
Old 09-19-2011, 04:07 PM
OFG OFG is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 3
OFG is on a distinguished road

It has never had a separate starting circuit. No timers or start capacitors.
The capacitors are across T2 and the generated leg, and T1 and T2 have always been connected to a 2 pole switch on the single phase 240V supply.
I prefer the newer units with starting circuits, but this one has worked OK without one for the last 30 years.
I can't figure out what has changed.
Reply With Quote

  #4  
Old 09-19-2011, 04:32 PM
Al_The_Man's Avatar
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 16,544
Al_The_Man is on a distinguished road
Buy me a Beer?

I have never come across a RPC that did not have a start circuit, especially when you get up to 15hp?
In a simple application a PB would place a large value bi-polar Cap from one of the 240v 1ph lines to the artificially generated phase to start rotation.
This provides a high out of phase starting current in the third phase, similar to what is done in a split phase 1ph motor.
In your case, I would guess that in changing the caps, you omitted or changed the value of the start cap.
Al.
__________________
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Machine Design.
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.

Last edited by Al_The_Man; 09-19-2011 at 06:33 PM.
Reply With Quote

  #5   Ban this user!
Old 09-19-2011, 07:48 PM
OFG OFG is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 3
OFG is on a distinguished road

I will shoot you a picture if I can.
I have (12) run capacitors, all are 50mfd @ 370VAC and they are all parallel with each other across T2, which is AC line 2, and T3, which is the manufactured leg.
Noisy on startup on a good day.

Deep here in Farmland, we actually have phase generators with _no_ capacitors.
They use a single phase motor shaft connected to the three phase motor shaft, and power up the single phase motor first. After it comes up to speed, they throw power on the 3 phase motor. After it comes up to speed, they start adding the 3 phase loads. Can't be pretty (don't even want to see it on a scope!) but it runs the grain augers OK. I would not use it like that, but some of the old school guys do.
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #6  
Old 09-19-2011, 08:10 PM
Al_The_Man's Avatar
Community Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 16,544
Al_The_Man is on a distinguished road
Buy me a Beer?

Apart from the starting situation it has probabally never been tuned.
Here is a typical set up. look at the FRW- files.
metalworking.com - /dropbox/_1998_retired_files/
Al
__________________
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Machine Design.
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
Reply With Quote

Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
40 HP Rotary Phase Converter Panel - NEW* CNCadmin EBAY ADS 0 08-13-2011 01:10 PM
7.5 HP Rotary Phase Converter - CNC Balanced / HD CNCadmin EBAY ADS 0 08-09-2011 09:30 AM
rotary phase converter fastleather Want To Buy...Need help! 0 12-15-2010 07:40 AM
Strangeness with my new Rotary Phase Converter. HackerMechTech Phase Converters and VFD 8 10-14-2008 09:31 AM
760-22 with rotary phase converter? tstom Bridgeport and Hardinge Mills 1 03-03-2008 12:34 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:40 AM.





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO
Template-Modifications by TMS

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361