Need Help!- Which VFD for spindle control Mach3 via Modbus

[silyavski]

Hi,
my machine is arriving today and i am still in doubt. I have decided on the spindle Teknomotor 1hp
The Big question is Which VFD with modbus direct control?
I dont see the reason buyng interfaces as my machine is with closed loop and i have many free ins and outs for communication. I am not a programmer so i need a clear step by step instruction how to controll Spindle on and off and speed via Mach 3, or at least VFD which has its own software for programming and monitoring which comes free with the unit.
Its unbelievable that being year 2011 for a whole week i could not find clear info on the subject, not here not at the Mach3 forums or any where else.

If i was a manifacturer this would be the first tutorial i would make and all will by my VFD.

So any body knows, is willing to share or can point me to a tutorial where step by step is explained how to connect and control directly via Modbus a VFD 1hp or even 3hp????????????

[diyengineer]

Hitachi X200 3HP. Once i get mine working, i will lay out some clear instructions.
http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drive...0-022NFU1.html

Currently getting it to work VIA modbus and mach 3. Just need the correct settings.

Cnczone:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cn..._settings.html

Mach 3 support:
Hitachi X200

If you end up getting one feel free to email or private message me for help.

Oh, and you will need one of these.

serial to usb converter.
http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-2-0-RS485-RS...#ht_3178wt_965

[silyavski]

Hi, thanks, while waiting for shipping quote to EU i Wonder something. I saw the thread before but dismissed it as i did not see the words:
Vector, Sensor-less and 200% starting torque at the description of this particular controller. Will i miss them? I still don't know as i have no idea

in fact i saw a thread about the sj200 /SJ200-007NFU/ which has this qualities and the guy was nice enough to publish screenshots and the brain. The problem is i can not find it here in Europe or even in USA, as is discontinued exchanged with the WJ line

what even makes me wonder more is that the manufacturer Teknomotor states, look last page at the end of their catalogue
Auto tuning functions: to avoid any damaging of the motor
we suggest not to use the auto tuning functions of your inverter
but manually set up the inverter parameters with a linear [V;F]
curve.

So what does it mean in plain English? The spindle doesnt need a complicated VFD with Vector, Sensor-less and 200% starting torque ???

[diyengineer]

The X200 should work fine.

how much money $USD is that spindle? It seems like a good company. Simply email them the specifications of the X200 and ask if it will work.

You only need to know how many poles the spindle has, as well as the Hertz its capable of. I.e. the Chinese spindle i have has 2 poles, and is capable of up to 400 Hertz.

[silyavski]

Originally Posted by diyengineer The X200 should work fine. how much money $USD is that spindle? It seems like a good company. Simply email them the specifications of the X200 and ask if it will work. You only need to know how many poles the spindle has, as well as the Hertz its capable of. I.e. the Chinese spindle i have has 2 poles, and is capable of up to 400 Hertz.

The spindle is 520Euro more or less x 1.4= ~720USD
Its 400 herz, double angular contact bearing,24 000 rpm, 4kg, made in italy so should be nice.
Thanks for the help, will ask them tomorrow. By the way, what is the runout on your chinese spindle? you have the water cooled or the air cooled?

[diyengineer]

Originally Posted by silyavski The spindle is 520Euro more or less x 1.4= ~720USD Its 400 herz, double angular contact bearing,24 000 rpm, 4kg, made in italy so should be nice. Thanks for the help, will ask them tomorrow. By the way, what is the runout on your chinese spindle? you have the water cooled or the air cooled?

watercooled, 2.2kw. Runout less than <.0005". I don't have a dial indicator to measure anything better.

[silyavski]

Diyengineer,
Thanks for the info,
that changed my mind and at the end i bought a 0.8kw chinese water spindle.
I couldn't find Hitachi in EU for a good price and the shipping from USA was too much, and customs..., so i went with a Toshiba VFNC3.
I was reading other post of yours and wonder what went wrong when you programmed your first spindle and burnt it?


I still have some unanswered questions like:
-How the hell 0.8kw spindle can draw 6AMPs, its not possible, what is the real rating of this spindle as i need it to program the thermal protection in the VFD?
-my VFD has four input options for control:
0: Voltage signal input (0 - 10 V)
1: Current signal input (4 - 20 mA)
2: Logic input
3: Voltage signal input (0 - 5 V)

So i was thinking is it not possible to control it directly from MAch3 by option Logic Input as i read now the manual and in section 6.5.2 it seems that this VFD can be commanded by frequency pulse input signals which if i am not wrong is PWM and Mach3 outputs this

[mike_Kilroy]

Originally Posted by silyavski Diyengineer, ........ I still have some unanswered questions like: -How the hell 0.8kw spindle can draw 6AMPs, its not possible, what is the real rating of this spindle as i need it to program the thermal protection in the VFD?........

this is not out of the question if ur spindle has a wide constant hp range - like speed range of 1500 to 24krpm..... to get it, spindle motor has to have artificially low base speed voltage so it can continue increasing the voltage above base speed.

so rating @1500rpm may well be 76v, requiring 6 amps to get .8kw here.

so ur 800w/230/1.73=2amps expected would only give your 2 pole motor constant hp from base speed of 1500 to maybe 3000rpm then it will start falling off fast.

[diyengineer]

Originally Posted by silyavski Diyengineer, Thanks for the info, that changed my mind and at the end i bought a 0.8kw chinese water spindle. I couldn't find Hitachi in EU for a good price and the shipping from USA was too much, and customs..., so i went with a Toshiba VFNC3. I was reading other post of yours and wonder what went wrong when you programmed your first spindle and burnt it? I still have some unanswered questions like: -How the hell 0.8kw spindle can draw 6AMPs, its not possible, what is the real rating of this spindle as i need it to program the thermal protection in the VFD? -my VFD has four input options for control: 0: Voltage signal input (0 - 10 V) 1: Current signal input (4 - 20 mA) 2: Logic input 3: Voltage signal input (0 - 5 V) So i was thinking is it not possible to control it directly from MAch3 by option Logic Input as i read now the manual and in section 6.5.2 it seems that this VFD can be commanded by frequency pulse input signals which if i am not wrong is PWM and Mach3 outputs this

You said it will receive a voltage input. That is how you control it from mach 3. There are many products you can use, but this would be an easy add on to your current setup, so you wouldnt have to replace your current breakout board.

CNC4PC

OR

CNC4PC

Contact Arturo VIA email and explain your situation. He will have you up and running in no time.

[diyengineer]

Originally Posted by silyavski I was reading other post of yours and wonder what went wrong when you programmed your first spindle and burnt it?

I never did "burn" my spindle. Nothing ever bad happened..?

[silyavski]

Originally Posted by diyengineer I never did "burn" my spindle. Nothing ever bad happened..?

Sorry, maybe i am wrong, i read the large thread about the chinese spindles and got the impression that you burnt your first spindle while programming the vfd, it was sb else obviously

i am asking about the 6A draw statement of the 0.8kw spindle for the following reason. the VFD i bought, a Toshiba one has max rating of 4.2A at the motor side/230V and 10A at the power line side/230V. Also all the brand spindles I saw which are 0.75kw/230V have rating 3.2A and as i plan to cool it with a short closed circuit, like a liquid cooled PC i would like to use the Thermal protection function of the VFD which in fact is nothing more than shutoff at certain power draw. So should i set it at 3.2A like a brand spindle, leave it at 4.2A like if i use a Toshiba spindle or what?

I know the PWM boards, but with shipment to Europe they become quite expensive for what they are in fact . From what i understand reading the manual this VFD has a logic input, a kind of PWM where you can adjust the sensitivity and lengths of incoming pulses and frequencies. The problem i see is that it expects also a kind of logical combinations to react to all the possible input commands, not only speed but also start, stop, etc. so at the end maybe i will buy the board or build it. How unfortunate that i can not program Mach3 to do this somehow as the link would be straight from the BOB

[diyengineer]

Originally Posted by silyavski Sorry, maybe i am wrong, i read the large thread about the chinese spindles and got the impression that you burnt your first spindle while programming the vfd, it was sb else obviously i am asking about the 6A draw statement of the 0.8kw spindle for the following reason. the VFD i bought, a Toshiba one has max rating of 4.2A at the motor side/230V and 10A at the power line side/230V. Also all the brand spindles I saw which are 0.75kw/230V have rating 3.2A and as i plan to cool it with a short closed circuit, like a liquid cooled PC i would like to use the Thermal protection function of the VFD which in fact is nothing more than shutoff at certain power draw. So should i set it at 3.2A like a brand spindle, leave it at 4.2A like if i use a Toshiba spindle or what? I know the PWM boards, but with shipment to Europe they become quite expensive for what they are in fact . From what i understand reading the manual this VFD has a logic input, a kind of PWM where you can adjust the sensitivity and lengths of incoming pulses and frequencies. The problem i see is that it expects also a kind of logical combinations to react to all the possible input commands, not only speed but also start, stop, etc. so at the end maybe i will buy the board or build it. How unfortunate that i can not program Mach3 to do this somehow as the link would be straight from the BOB

Id' let it use 4.2 amps. You will not be fully stressing the motor ALL the time, so just running it idle is not going to take the FULL amperage.