Looking for a low cost pcb cnc mill

[arthur92710]

I want to make pcbs at home. There are 2 options. Toner method with chemical etching(lots of work) and CNC milling(to expensive). I want to go with CNC because I will need a way to drill holes. If I use the toner method I also need a drill press, which is about a $100.
I have looked all over and cant decide what cnc mill to get. I want something with good quality, expandable milling area (maybe from 6x6 to 12x12), and sub $500.
Thanks for your time and help.

[Drools]

That sub 500 requirement is definitely a problem. To keep the costs down you might want to look into one of the MDF machines. You might get away with Nema 17 motors but please ask someone with more experience before going that route. There might be a inexpensive CNC package that would include all the electronics minus the frame and slides.
Good luck please let us know what you end up with.

[bsdphk]

Originally Posted by Drools That sub 500 requirement is definitely a problem.

I would say very much so.

Admittedly, I only have one datapoint:

I have a Proxxon MF70 converted to CNC by Usovo.de. That will set you back approx EUR1000, which is probably around USD1500 these days, but it does the job very well.

There are a number of ways things could be done simpler or cheaper than on the MF70, but not 66% cheaper.

What you need most for PCB production is Z-axis precision: you are trying to shave 35µm copper off.

In most low-cost designs I've seen, certainly in most MDF designs, Z wobbles when X or Y moves.

So if you decide to build for yourself, you want a fixed gantry design for the Z axis, with an XY table under it.

You should also carefully consider the economy, even USD500 will get you a lot of professionally produced PCB's, including silk- & solder-screen.

Poul-Henning

[Drools]

I can tell you aboUT what my 8020 based router cost me to build.
I say about as I'm not 100% sure what I spent in small nuts and bolts but the trips were many and frequent to the hardware store.
1. Stepper Drivers 150.00 for all 3.
2. Steppers 270oz Tormach 150.00 for all 3 inc shipping.
3. Frame 250.00 worth of 8020 Ali and nuts/bolts.
4. 45VDC @ 10amp Power supply Free, salvaged 2 of them.
5. Enclosure for drivers and powersupply, Free also salvaged.
6. Acme 1/2-10 screw 1x36", 1x26", 1x12" and Nema 23 billit mounts and bearing blocks for each axis 250.00 from percisiontech machining.
7. Stepper couplers, rubber centers stainless steel ends 30.00 used.
8. Mach3 software 175.00.
9. Slides are made from 1/4 inch by 1/2 Ali angle. I had the machine shop drill the mounting holes for the bearings. 100.00.
10. Bearings, skateboard for local shop. 50.00.
11. Z axis uses new THK slides, I lucked out and got 4 x 13" slides and 4 trucks for 30.00. I used 2 of them on this Z and I will use the other 2 on another Z.
12. Wolfgang Spindle 260.00.
13. V-Bits and drills 75.00.
14. Silicone spray lub 8.00
15. 1/2 x 3 inch supporting plates 30.00.
16. I made my own angle supports for the 8020. I purchased a 12ft lenght of 1/4 x 2 inch Ali angle. 60.00.
17. I had to purchase a special Ali cutting blade for the chop saw 80.00
18. Lets add another 150.00 for stuff I forgot cables connectors etc.
19. Computer to run Mach3, Free I have many.
20. Second LPT port (optional) Free.
I didn't add it all up and I hope my wife does not see this thread!!

Keeping it under 500.00 will be a little difficult, my router would have been a little less expensive if I had stuck to small X and Y travel but the trade off was not worth it for me.

[Crevice Reamer]

Hi Arthur. Welcome to the Zone!

Sub $500 for a 12 x 12 CNC machine? Dream on.

This is the most-bang-for-buck CNC ready-to-go machine--just unpack & assemble, add computer & Mach3 software:

http://deepgroove1.com/cncmill.htm

But it's $1700 and only 5.5 x 12.

CR.

[Johnnybgood3]

Originally Posted by Crevice Reamer Hi Arthur. Welcome to the Zone! Sub $500 for a 12 x 12 CNC machine? Dream on. This is the most-bang-for-buck CNC ready-to-go machine--just unpack & assemble, add computer & Mach3 software: http://deepgroove1.com/cncmill.htm But it's $1700 and only 5.5 x 12. CR.

Does anyone have any hard numbers on the performance of this machine? I can't find any numbers anywhere online. I'm looking to make PCBs with SMDs that have around 7 mils separation between pads. Is that possible with a relatively cheap machine(<$3000)?

[Crevice Reamer]

The Deepgroove1 machine is a CNC converted Taig 2119CR. He uses Gecko electronics. You might find more info about the Taig:

http://aolsearcht5.search.aol.com/ao...40698895238796

CR.

[eSilviu]

Originally Posted by arthur92710 I want to make pcbs at home. There are 2 options. Toner method with chemical etching(lots of work) and CNC milling(to expensive). I want to go with CNC because I will need a way to drill holes. If I use the toner method I also need a drill press, which is about a $100. I have looked all over and cant decide what cnc mill to get. I want something with good quality, expandable milling area (maybe from 6x6 to 12x12), and sub $500. Thanks for your time and help.

with two good working hands:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...227#post708227

[universalfab]

From what I've seen the cheaper or home made cnc's are not that great. Not saying they don't function, but there performance is low unless your going to dump alot of money into it. What kind of tolerances are you looking to hold? Spending $500.00 or less on a machine that is new is going to make you wish you never heard the word cnc if your budget is that small. My advice is save money and get a more expensive machine. Probably no less then $6,000.00 new for something decent. Or you could take a shot and buy something used for a deal, but you have to look for a good deal and get 10X or better the machine you'd buy new. Thats my opinion and what I've found out. I don't mess with any of that cheaper new stuff, but I have seen a few machines and their performances were fair-poar range. It's better to spend more then be wishing later that you spent more and get stuck with a crappy machine, in your case...

[eSilviu]

Originally Posted by universalfab From what I've seen the cheaper or home made cnc's are not that great. Not saying they don't function, but there performance is low unless your going to dump alot of money into it. What kind of tolerances are you looking to hold? Spending $500.00 or less on a machine that is new is going to make you wish you never heard the word cnc if your budget is that small. My advice is save money and get a more expensive machine. Probably no less then $6,000.00 new for something decent. Or you could take a shot and buy something used for a deal, but you have to look for a good deal and get 10X or better the machine you'd buy new. Thats my opinion and what I've found out. I don't mess with any of that cheaper new stuff, but I have seen a few machines and their performances were fair-poar range. It's better to spend more then be wishing later that you spent more and get stuck with a crappy machine, in your case...

define a "great performance CNC"
an incompetent user with a xxxx$ CNC will have worse results than a user that know how to use that machine. It took me 1 year to learn how to use my own cnc.

[bsdphk]

Originally Posted by universalfab My advice is save money and get a more expensive machine. Probably no less then $6,000.00 new for something decent.

For PCB production up to eurocard size, the CNC-modded Proxxon MF70 from usovo.de is very decent at only EUR 1000.

In fact, I would argue it closer to "fantastic" than "decent", if you employ my "height-probing" trick:

http://phk.freebsd.dk/CncPcb/

http://phk.freebsd.dk/CncPcb/calibrate.html

Poul-Henning

[universalfab]

Originally Posted by eSilviu define a "great performance CNC" an incompetent user with a xxxx$ CNC will have worse results than a user that know how to use that machine. It took me 1 year to learn how to use my own cnc.

Well for 1 I know this guy isn't going to find anything for $500.00 or less, we all have started projects that never got finished. If this guy attempts to start building one that is exactly what it will be or he would'nt be on here asking. For pcb's you don't need anything really that heavy duty to do the job, but you do need something that is going to hold tight tolerances. High speed spindle would be also a very big plus for anyone using small cutters like that for pcb's. So something small is what I'm thinking for this guy, now this for him is completely out of his ballpark I'm sure. This I'd say is a great machine of it's calibur it's the Haas office mill OM1A, I myself would never buy something so small because I do a wide range of things but for what he's doing this would be primo. Tight tolerances, highspeed machining, and it doesn't take up much room which from the sounds of it is a big factor for most people on here. Thats not saying you can't come up with a knee mill and retrofit it and get as good or better performance, but it all takes time and money and knowing what your doing. I myself buy used majority of the time, but the big thing is where you buy used from and thats where you'll come up with a deal. Good luck