coppercam calculations on conical tools

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Thread: coppercam calculations on conical tools

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    Default coppercam calculations on conical tools

    Hi.

    Im working towards getting a cnc machine to prototype boards.

    Ive managed to design it. Export to gerber and get it into copper cam. After going through all the forums and articles it seems the conical tools are the way to go.

    When i attempted to setup a tool in copper cam i told it the following...

    Diameter 6mm diameter(thumb sucking)
    Angle 30 degree from manufacturer
    Tip size 0.3mm from the manufacturer

    I obviously need a healthy isolation and found you can calculate the size of the line that it cuts using thia formula

    (Tan(angle)×2)×depth+tip size

    Assuming i cut 0.1mm it engraves a line of about 0.35mm. If i go to selected tools coppercam seems to calculate the radius based on cut depth but it seems wrong when it tells me the radius.

    I assumed mine to be correct because it needs to be greater than 0.3mm. If i tell it its 0.35mm cylindrical and engrave it outlines one track in red but nowhere does it tell me why its drawing my attention there because nothing seems to be wrong.

    Is this a software bug or am i missing something obvious.

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    Default Re: coppercam calculations on conical tools

    I'm using coppercam and happy with it I found it has a couple of bugs in the multiboard mode but otherwise for the price easy to use. I'm using it on a omio x6 6040 with standalone controller and works no problems. First thing you'll never get 0.1 cut with a 0.3 tip. I'm using cheap Banggood 0.1 both 10 and 20degree tips and they work great especially for small smd work and best of all they are dirt cheap so I'm not too sad if I break one. I use a calibration gcode to work out my real tip diam first and will post a link when I get back to the office as only on my mobile. I'm pretty sure (but will check) the red is when coppercam either has a problem completing the isolation or the cutter won't work in that area because it's too big. Have a look on the copper preview and see how the cut will look in the region where the red line is. You may find there won't be a cut there.


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    Quote Originally Posted by madeinoz67 View Post
    I'm using coppercam and happy with it I found it has a couple of bugs in the multiboard mode but otherwise for the price easy to use. I'm using it on a omio x6 6040 with standalone controller and works no problems. First thing you'll never get 0.1 cut with a 0.3 tip. I'm using cheap Banggood 0.1 both 10 and 20degree tips and they work great especially for small smd work and best of all they are dirt cheap so I'm not too sad if I break one. I use a calibration gcode to work out my real tip diam first and will post a link when I get back to the office as only on my mobile. I'm pretty sure (but will check) the red is when coppercam either has a problem completing the isolation or the cutter won't work in that area because it's too big. Have a look on the copper preview and see how the cut will look in the region where the red line is. You may find there won't be a cut there.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I'm a major newbie with this. I asaumed the cutting depth meant how far my 30 degree 0.3mm tip went into the surface. The way to look at it is to assume that it is a 0 mm tip and work the diameter from there by telling it that it has a minimum diameter of 0.3mm once you are happy with what you are seeing.

    If you dont mind me asking, what tool depth are you using and do you use more than one successive contour? It was recommended i use a 40 or 60 degree but they arent readily available by me and those that are are expensive comlared to the 30 and 20 degree.



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    Default Re: coppercam calculations on conical tools

    Quote Originally Posted by ClintonBrits View Post
    I'm a major newbie with this. I asaumed the cutting depth meant how far my 30 degree 0.3mm tip went into the surface. The way to look at it is to assume that it is a 0 mm tip and work the diameter from there by telling it that it has a minimum diameter of 0.3mm once you are happy with what you are seeing.

    If you dont mind me asking, what tool depth are you using and do you use more than one successive contour? It was recommended i use a 40 or 60 degree but they arent readily available by me and those that are are expensive comlared to the 30 and 20 degree.
    Ahh ok my misunderstanding on what you were saying and I now understand, depth is as you describe. 1oz Copper layer is approx 0.035mm so I normally cut around 0.05mm but if not enough then I go a bit deeper

    No the vbit cutters always have a tip diameter. Usually 0.1, 0.2 or 0.3. I found 0.1 and the 10-30 degree the best for my smd pcb cuts. But they are fragile and expect to break some.

    Do your pocket a favour and checkout banggood for cutters they work and are dirt cheap so you won't be stressed too much if you break one. They also have a large range of angles as well as tip sizes

    Also use a cutting oil. I use coconut oil successfully as it's cheap and you can get from the supermarket


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    Last edited by madeinoz67; 09-01-2017 at 03:49 AM.


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    Default Re: coppercam calculations on conical tools

    here is the promised link to my calibration files:

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rlvbrzyrk...WwBUb1KRa?dl=0

    one is gcode there other is a gerber

    The gcode tests a range of speeds and depth of cuts doing zigzag tests as described here: Calibrating Feeds and Speeds with Carbide Microtools (see patterns page | ZigZag) and is run directly on my CNC, you determine best quality and then use its settings in coppercam. I use this for new types of cutters and is a good way to zero in on a good feed rate and depth easily without breaking tips too often. Once you have it for a particular tool you won't need to re-run.

    The gerber file and how to calibrate the cutter diameter is explained here Calibrating PCB isolation routing with Eagle/pcb-gcode I just converted his file to gerber as I don't use eagle, that way it will read into coppercam easy, basically you put in the settings into copeprcam for the cutter and run the this grb, then measure under a microscope the actual width of cut, make diameter adjustments in the software to compensate, then re-run and hey presto your cuts should be correct widths. Its also a good way to test what the cutter is capable of.

    The problem with Vbits are the width of cut can vary due to copper layer variation, how level your machine is and how deep you cut and is why I go for lower angle cutters of 10-30Degrees and shallow cuts.

    Here are the settings in coppercam for my 30Degree tip which are these ones on banggood https://www.banggood.com/10Pcs-0_1mm-30Degree-Carbide-PCB-Board-Engraving-Bits-CNC-Router-Tool-V-shape-p-1030786.html similar for 15Deg, and you can see the plunge speed difference because of the finer tip




    here is the selected tool config for my last job I ran


    Here you can see the sweet spot in the range of cuts for the feed and speed test, two different cutter tests here too btw, the bottom is 30deg bit from memory and you can see a marked difference in feed rates, while the top was a small bur cutter, size I can't remember but probably 0.6mm, but definitely gives cleaner cuts across a wider range of speeds than the vbit and the width is always constant no matter the depth, unfortunately can't get the smaller cutting widths like the vbit for the price
    .


    0603 resistors and SMD tri-coloured LED does with coppercam using the settings above for a RasPi Cluster I'm building, excuse the hand soldering but was done at during one of our local maker meetups where I didn't have an oven or a microscope so was done by hand and my eyesight is crappy at the best of times lol


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails coppercam calculations on conical tools-2017-09-01_14-34-35-png   coppercam calculations on conical tools-2017-09-01_15-03-51-png   coppercam calculations on conical tools-2017-09-01_15-05-35-png   coppercam calculations on conical tools-rpi-rgb-board_orig-jpg  

    coppercam calculations on conical tools-20160923-064953-888-jpg   coppercam calculations on conical tools-rpi-notification-board_orig-jpg  
    Last edited by madeinoz67; 09-01-2017 at 03:52 AM.


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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by madeinoz67 View Post
    here is the promised link to my calibration files:

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rlvbrzyrk...WwBUb1KRa?dl=0

    one is gcode there other is a gerber

    The gcode tests a range of speeds and depth of cuts doing zigzag tests as described here: Calibrating Feeds and Speeds with Carbide Microtools (see patterns page | ZigZag) and is run directly on my CNC, you determine best quality and then use its settings in coppercam. I use this for new types of cutters and is a good way to zero in on a good feed rate and depth easily without breaking tips too often. Once you have it for a particular tool you won't need to re-run.

    The gerber file and how to calibrate the cutter diameter is explained here Calibrating PCB isolation routing with Eagle/pcb-gcode I just converted his file to gerber as I don't use eagle, that way it will read into coppercam easy, basically you put in the settings into copeprcam for the cutter and run the this grb, then measure under a microscope the actual width of cut, make diameter adjustments in the software to compensate, then re-run and hey presto your cuts should be correct widths. Its also a good way to test what the cutter is capable of.

    The problem with Vbits are the width of cut can vary due to copper layer variation, how level your machine is and how deep you cut and is why I go for lower angle cutters of 10-30Degrees and shallow cuts.

    Here are the settings in coppercam for my 30Degree tip which are these ones on banggood https://www.banggood.com/10Pcs-0_1mm-30Degree-Carbide-PCB-Board-Engraving-Bits-CNC-Router-Tool-V-shape-p-1030786.html similar for 15Deg, and you can see the plunge speed difference because of the finer tip




    here is the selected tool config for my last job I ran


    Here you can see the sweet spot in the range of cuts for the feed and speed test, two different cutter tests here too btw, the bottom is 30deg bit from memory and you can see a marked difference in feed rates, while the top was a small bur cutter, size I can't remember but probably 0.6mm, but definitely gives cleaner cuts across a wider range of speeds than the vbit and the width is always constant no matter the depth, unfortunately can't get the smaller cutting widths like the vbit for the price
    .


    0603 resistors and SMD tri-coloured LED does with coppercam using the settings above for a RasPi Cluster I'm building, excuse the hand soldering but was done at during one of our local maker meetups where I didn't have an oven or a microscope so was done by hand and my eyesight is crappy at the best of times lol
    Thanks mate that helps clear up a lot of "what if" scenarios we were looking at. My main concern was good isolation of my paths and and so i used large clearances on my circuit design assuming the worst possible experience when the machine comes.

    I notices you had tried a bur cutter that looks really decent. Did you find any down side to using it other than the constant size and having a high price tag on smaller sizes?

    This is definately doable though and it beats the hell out of prototyping on a veroboard.



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    Default Re: coppercam calculations on conical tools

    Quote Originally Posted by ClintonBrits View Post
    Thanks mate that helps clear up a lot of "what if" scenarios we were looking at. My main concern was good isolation of my paths and and so i used large clearances on my circuit design assuming the worst possible experience when the machine comes.

    I notices you had tried a bu cutter that looks really decent. Did you find any down side to using it other than the constant size and having a high price tag on smaller sizes?

    This is definately doable though and it beats the hell out of prototyping on a veroboard.
    The burr cutter is used for holes and and a larger one for cutouts. The board shown was done with 30deg 0.1mm vbit


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



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coppercam calculations on conical tools

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