Build Thread A mostly Aluminum Solsylva


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Thread: A mostly Aluminum Solsylva

  1. #1
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    Default A mostly Aluminum Solsylva

    I was planing to build a Joe's 4 x 4 Hybrid, but as I looked at the plans, and it's foot print, I decided to start smaller. (we'll be moving out of our house to remodel soon, portable is good)

    I don't own many tools so the mostly cross cut and standard lumber in the Solsylva 25 x 25 seemed perfect, and it should be able to cut everything for the Joe's when I get there.

    As I started planing I found a great deal on 1/8" 2 x 5" Aluminum Tube and thought it would be pretty straight forward to use it in place of the 2x4s.

    Most recently, I've cut a deal, I'm going to deliver some of the Aluminum Tube to a friend who has a TIG welder, he'll weld me up a frame for the bed.

    I've been working on it for a week or so, bought a Drill Press and borrowed a miter saw. Here's a shot of the bits so far. I've got one of the pipe slides attached, and have cut a lot of Aluminum Tube, and some plate, I was thinking of using the plate instead of 1x4 and 1x6, but have concluded that would be silly, to thick, to heavy, and to thick to TIG weld nicely my friend says.

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-cnc_bits-jpg  


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    That should make a pretty nice one. Especially with TIG welded joints.

    Wherever you need to put bolts through it you may want to consider making tube spacers for sleeves or sliding close fitting blocks of hardwood into the area that the bolts go through the tubes. It doesn't take a lot of tightening to see the walls bow inward without some sort of support inside.

    Try it on a sample piece of tubing without supports first, and then decide whether the supports are needed or not.

    I didn't care for the pine 2x4 construction called for in the Solsylva 25x37 plans and used red oak for my 1st build with no regrets.

    CarveOne

    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com


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    I've been thinking about that a bit, I was thinking either wood inserts as you say or tapping some of the 3/4 Aluminum I got. I can get my hand inside so I may you the bolt method suggested in the plans and put fender washer and nuts inside as well so I don't get "squeeze" pressure on the tubes.



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    Default Build Update

    I didn't get as much done as I'd hoped over the long weekend, but the welds are beautiful, and man is it solid, no strength or stiffness problems here. Attaching a shot of the welds and the base and rails as it currently stands.
    Hope to get motion going this week.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-tig_welds-jpg   A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-router_post_welding-jpg  


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    Got some more done,
    Built the Y axis and used the Aluminum tube as the gantry. I also decided to try v-bearings instead of pipe, I'm hopping that works out.

    On the Z axis I screwed up the bearing placement on the right, I've since reversed it.

    Pete

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-y-rails-jpg   A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-z-carriage-jpg  


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    Well, I have been working on and with my CNC since I last posted. I've spent enough time with it to see the most chronic problems. It's a great design for a trim router and I've been able to cut mdf and wood, tried a 3D carving and even have cut some Aluminum, but I'm seeing the limitations of the wood pieces, and to some extent the trim router.
    Here's what it looks like currently.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-img_0030-jpg   A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-p1100239-jpg  


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    Default A few more pics

    You can see the crude yet effective hole in the back to allow for longer stock and also the clamps helping hold the t-slot down, don't know what I was thinking when I used wood screws on those.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-p1100324-jpg   A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-p1100325-jpg  


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    Hi otto_pjm,

    You had a few questions in your PM to me about my Z axis construction details. These photos should help. By posting them here for reference purposes it should keep us from having to jump forums so much during discussions about it.

    My bearings are mounted in a bearing plate that has a shoulder in the hole that is used to make the bearing captive by the shoulder of the ACME screw adapter's shoulder and the collar. The ACME screw is pinned into the 1/2" hole in the adapter with a small roll pin. The hole is about 1" deep and is a snug fit over the ACME screw so that there is very good axial alignment of the adapter and screw. These adapters are made on my lathe. They are a close slip fit to the bearing's inside diameter.

    The disassembled adapter is for the motor end as it has a 1/4" shank for the DumpsterCNC coupler. The lower end adapter is the same other than it does not have the 1/4" shank. The rail is a piece of 1/4" x 3" precision ground cold rolled steel only because I did not realize that it was not plain CRS until I got the bill from the local Fastenal store when I picked it up. The cncrouterparts.com carriages sure do run smoothly on it.

    The other two views should show everything but the anti-backlash nut and its mount.

    Thanks for your interest in it.

    CarveOne

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-dscn1802-jpg   A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-dscn1806-jpg   A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-dscn1807-jpg  
    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com


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    Default The new Z-axis

    CarveOne,

    Thanks so much for your support.
    For anyone else wondering I've been discussing a new Z-axis with CarveOne and he's graciously agreed to allow me to model my design on his and answer questions about how he did it.

    My goal is to try and use as many "stock" parts as possible as I have neither the tools nor experience using them that CarveOne has. I'm planning to use Rockler MultiTrack as both the spine / column and the slide of the Z axis.


    Sketch of my plans - MultiTrack

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-img_0067-jpg   A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-rockler_multitrack_no_dim-jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by otto_pjm View Post
    CarveOne,

    Thanks so much for your support.
    For anyone else wondering I've been discussing a new Z-axis with CarveOne and he's graciously agreed to allow me to model my design on his and answer questions about how he did it.

    My goal is to try and use as many "stock" parts as possible as I have neither the tools nor experience using them that CarveOne has. I'm planning to use Rockler MultiTrack as both the spine / column and the slide of the Z axis.


    Sketch of my plans - MultiTrack
    You can get bearing plates from cncrouterparts.com and you don't need to use the lead screw adapters that I machined for my design. There is also a drawing on Ahren's site that has become a reference for many other builds. You can make these things as complicated or as simple as you wish to. My Z axis is very similar to one that buick455 did back when Ahren first came out with his bearing carriages. It made sense to me and functions as I wanted mine to be. I just used lower cost steel angle and 1" x 2" steel box tube instead of 8020 extrusion.

    CarveOne

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-buick455-z-axis-jpg  
    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com


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    Quote Originally Posted by CarveOne View Post
    You can get bearing plates from cncrouterparts.com and you don't need to use the lead screw adapters that I machined for my design. There is also a drawing on Ahren's site that has become a reference for many other builds. You can make these things as complicated or as simple as you wish to. My Z axis is very similar to one that buick455 did back when Ahren first came out with his bearing carriages. It made sense to me and functions as I wanted mine to be. I just used lower cost steel angle and 1" x 2" steel box tube instead of 8020 extrusion.

    CarveOne
    Thanks CarveOne,

    I've been checking out cncrouterparts and a few other sites. I'm going to try and start simply, at least what I consider simple . I'll be able to get some parts, nuts and bearings from my old Z - Axis once I swap it out, so I'll likely use some parts that are just good enough to make sure I have the right clearances etc and that everything moves as expected first. To that end I think I'll be making fuel line and hose clamp collars to prototype and then re-use the Acme nuts I have on the existing axis when I take it apart. (I have an odd sized 3/8 Acme 1 start for my X-axis and my Z-axis right now, and was using a single nut as the leadnut on the Z-axis. For the new one I bought a leadnut from dumpstercnc that's has a < 1" footprint, so that will get attached to the Z-slide with some angle. As someone on one of the Joe's lists pointed out the this lead screw

    from cncrouterparts would fit my Multitrack t-slot exactly, but I had ordered the other leadnut, and would rather stay with 3/8 rod for now.

    I unfortunately will be side tracked for awhile replacing the bed on my CNC as the hold down system is just not up to holding aluminum, or even wood all that well. I'm redesigning the bed, and it's likely overkill, but I'd rather not have this problem again. I'm also hoping to build a rotary 4th axis into the front and be able to dovetail there as well, so I'm going to make the bed in two pieces, so the front can be easily removed to use the rotary or dovetail option. The exposed frame is show below. I'm going to add some 1/8" aluminum to the edges of the base bed board and some to support the t-slot nuts and hold downs for the MDF spoil board as well.

    Pete

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-bed_removed-jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by otto_pjm View Post
    -snip-

    "I'm redesigning the bed, and it's likely overkill,"

    Pete
    I have no experience with Ahren's ACME nuts, as I already had DumpsterCNC nuts for both of my machines when I found out about these. I like the way they mount though.

    So far as I've seen with these CNC router machines there is no such thing as overkill, or too expensive. It's all too expensive for me, but I struggle to get the things I need to feed my CNC habit anyway. I have managed to build a much better and faster machine than I ever expected when I started it 1-1/2 years ago. It will continue to evolve into a steel frame machine by year end if I can manage it.

    Your machine will evolve also. Swapping out parts to continually improve your machine is one way to do it but it becomes more expensive over time. You learn a lot by doing it that way though. I surely have.

    CarveOne

    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com


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    Quote Originally Posted by CarveOne View Post

    Your machine will evolve also. Swapping out parts to continually improve your machine is one way to do it but it becomes more expensive over time. You learn a lot by doing it that way though. I surely have.

    CarveOne
    I'm seeing a lot of evolution already, my family and friends have stopped asking when it will be "done" i think it's pretty much perpetual.

    It's been cold, so I've moved mostly inside doing some CAD drawings and playing with some crude mock up parts to see how it will all actually fit together. It's coming along, slow but sure.

    Pete

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-img_0077-jpg  


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    Default New Bed Progress

    Making some progress on the bed, which is good, since I can't cut without it. I'm putting some 1/8" AL underneath, along the edges, and to bolt the t-slot to. That's what takes the time but it's coming. Picked up some beam clamps I hope to use to keep the four corners clamp down without getting in the way of the router or if I feed long sheets front to back.

    Pete

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-img_0079-jpg   A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-img_0080-jpg  


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    Default Bed and Z axis progress 1

    Not sure what happened, this is a duplicate post,

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-1-jpg   A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-2-jpg  
    Last edited by otto_pjm; 01-31-2010 at 11:57 PM. Reason: this is a duplicate!


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    Default Bed and Z axis progress 2

    Not sure what happened there,

    Anyway the Z-axis didn't get as much attention, but I made some progress, it's looking like this. Next up in getting the ABL onto the angle coming off of the Z-slide and to get the actual guides in place, hopefully this week.....



    I've also got a small NEMA 23 motor and a stand alone stepper driver kit on the way so I can play with everything indoors and not have to muck with the existing setup. I'm thinking it will help me design and build a rotary forth axis eventually too, so it'll be worth having beyond this project.

    I'm hoping the driver kit is a good one, it looked pretty solid and can be run stand alone or from a Printer port,



    anybody used this.
    Unipolar-Stepper-Motor-Driver
    It actually comes from here it seems.
    http://www.kitsrus.com/
    Anyway, I'll let you know how it turns out.

    Pete

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-img_0085_2-jpg  
    Last edited by otto_pjm; 02-01-2010 at 12:16 AM. Reason: Images aren't working right


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    Default Z axis pieces together, time to nail down locations and lengths

    I got a few afternoons off this week, so I've been able to get a mostly complete mock-up together. I've been afraid to cut the Multitrack so now I need to figure out how tall the Z-spine and slide will be and take the plunge and cut it.

    I'm thinking I may use the Multitrack as the top of the axis as well below the motor mount, I hadn't thought of that originally, but I have a mocked of piece of MDF in that location now and the ability to slide the plate with the bearing flange in it around is really handy, might be just the thing to make alignment quick and painless.
    See the top here


    I looked into a thread or two on drilling AL with a forsner driil bit. It sounds doable, I'm just concerned about how the track profiles will respond. I'd hate to bend anything. I'm trying to figure out if I can stuff strips of AL or maybe MDF into the channels so there are less gaps when I drill it.

    Here's how it looks lately.



    Pete

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-1-jpg   A mostly Aluminum Solsylva-4-jpg  


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    Default How wide should the connection to the gantry carriage be?

    I'm wondering if I can get away with using the two outside tracks in the Multitrack as my connection to the gantry carriage. I'm a little concerned as the tracks are only 1.5" apart.

    My alternative would be to put a plate on the back side of the Multitrack that serves as the spine, but I'd rather not if I can get away without doing that.

    CarveOne if you are out there did you use Ahren's regular or extended carriages on your gantry? If they are the regular then you are using 1.5" spacing to connect to your gantry carriage as well and I'll feel better about trying that route.


    Progress wise I'm doing my best to set my travel limits and figure out sizes so I can make cuts in the actual MultiTrack and get building for real. It looks like I'll have 10-12 inches of travel from the bottom of the Z bearing flange. I'm planing to be up about 6 1/2" from my bed, which is 1 1/2" so that would give me 2-4" over over cut to get into the rotary axis a healthy ways I hope. I think I'll be able to pull the router mount lower to work with the rotary axis as I hope to be able to mount up to 8" pieces in it and it would be nice to be able to over cut them. (cut below center) More planing to do.

    Pete



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    Quote Originally Posted by otto_pjm View Post
    CarveOne if you are out there did you use Ahren's regular or extended carriages on your gantry? If they are the regular then you are using 1.5" spacing to connect to your gantry carriage as well and I'll feel better about trying that route.
    I used the extended carriages because my gantry was going to be made of steel and would be heavier than the usual MDF/8020 type of builds. I wanted to spread the loads on the gantry over a wider space on the rail. They both have 1.5" spacing for the holes but there are four holes in the extended carriage versus two holes in the regular carriages. Ahren said at the time I bought them that the regular carriages could take the loads ok, but I went with the extended carriages anyway. I'm glad I did now that the weight has climbed to 100+ pounds. It can handle the acceleration and stopping of the heavier weight gantry better.

    I don't think that the extended carriages will be needed on your machine and they will reduce your overall travel distance by the additional 4" or so of length. However, I don't really know how much weight you will be slinging around and if you will have a tall gantry. If you put a metal stabilizer plate on the Multitrack that just rests on the top of your carriage it will help stabilize the loads on the 1.5" spaced bolt holes.

    CarveOne

    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com


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    Quote Originally Posted by CarveOne View Post

    I don't think that the extended carriages will be needed on your machine and they will reduce your overall travel distance by the additional 4" or so of length. However, I don't really know how much weight you will be slinging around and if you will have a tall gantry. If you put a metal stabilizer plate on the Multitrack that just rests on the top of your carriage it will help stabilize the loads on the 1.5" spaced bolt holes.

    CarveOne
    Thanks CarveOne, I've been debating using just the 5/16 t-slot bolts or using some 3/4 AL and bolting it into the MultiTrack and ABL drive plate. I'll ponder that some more thanks for the response.

    Pete



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